Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)

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01 Nov 2012 14:36 #1 by dandjcr
dandjcr created the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
Outback Jack
Member
Posts: 381
Tony, I had heard some have put a electric fuel pump in for some reason.
I need to replace alternator as the Turbo has been leaking, so thoughts was I might as well put at a 120a back in it.
I want 169 to finished today. However the hold up is parts.I have ordered replacement parts for the coffin panels etc etc. Just waiting for the to arrive.
I need to have 169 by 20th Sept, so I do have a dead line.
As 169 has worked all its live, I wanted to make sure when I take the family away, I minimise any potentiol problems. This is why its getting a bit of a birthday,

--


August 15, 2012 at 2:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
Yes, I've heard that people put an electric fuel pump in to prime the system when they run out of fuel - and if you just plumb it in in series with the lift pump then if the mechanical one fails, you can just switch the priming pump on. Supposedly the mechanical one will just suck through the electric one with no problems.


Chris J
Member
Posts: 56
Tony Lee at August 15, 2012 at 8:00 PM
Yes, I've heard that people put an electric fuel pump in to prime the system when they run out of fuel - and if you just plumb it in in series with the lift pump then if the mechanical one fails, you can just switch the priming pump on. Supposedly the mechanical one will just suck through the electric one with no problems.
Hi Tony,
I put a squeeze bowl primer on my fuel line / tank, Simple, cheap and works a treat.
Regards, Chris.

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Chris and Janice Jones - OKA 166





August 16, 2012 at 8:20 AM
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Tony

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August 15, 2012 at 8:00 PM

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25 Apr 2014 18:55 #2 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
Before the Anzac day sherry circulates too far, which electric fuel pumps has anyone fitted to replace/augment the mechanical lift pump?

I have a good mechanical lift pump, even got a spare, but they are not that easy to replace and just switching over to an electric pump would seem a simple answer to an outback lift pump problem.

When similar mechanical pumps have failed on my cars previously, usually the diaphragm ruptures which allows fuel to mix with the engine oil, so just fitting an electric pump in series doesn't seem like a good idea.

A parallel system to bypass the lift pump would be needed if an electric pump is to be fitted to improve confidence. That requires fuel change over taps and extra piping, (unless just replacing the lift pump entirely but that just creates a different single point of failure).

Has anyone gone down that path?

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25 Apr 2014 19:12 #3 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
Maybe bypass the mechanical one altogether.

Just put a plate where it goes. A lot of other vehicles have done the same.

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25 Apr 2014 21:05 #4 by Peter Davis
Peter Davis replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
I've eventually got to get around to fitting one also. My thoughts are to fit 2 electric pumps. One for each fuel tank and the ability to turn on each pump next to the fuel filter to remove air from lines. I haven't chosen the pump but would try to match the original mechanical pump properties. I think from memory high volume low pressure.

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26 Apr 2014 05:11 #5 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
If you want the Rolls Royce version

Airdog

or cheaper options like this.

Electric diesel fuel pump lift pump

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26 Apr 2014 06:03 #6 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
Don't buy one of the ones in that auction then as if they are for Humvee's or CUCV's then they are 24v.
About the right pressure though as has been said high volume low pressure is needed for our old style mechanically injected engines as the fuel flow cools and lubricates the injection pump, restricted fuel flow leads to injection pump wear which is why you should never wait until the engine coughs before swapping tanks.

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400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
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26 Apr 2014 07:53 #7 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
Thanks for the replies.

I like Peter D's idea of a fully duplicated electrical pump system but initially I was looking at these better quality pumps as a starting point, although the Goss Supercheap models might be a useful standby.

Having a 4 ft lift ability means a Walbro could be fitted up near the filter block on the engine where it (and changeover taps) would be accessible. (Some electric pumps don't have much lift/suck ability).

Another to do item.

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26 Apr 2014 08:25 #8 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
#196 has 2 electric pumps fitted. One for the front tank and one for the rear tanks, fitted adjacent to the selector valve. Cheap ones from the local auto shop. Been there 6 years I reckon.
Can be powered, or not.

Cheers, Peter.
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26 Apr 2014 08:40 #9 by Dave and Pauline Gray
Dave and Pauline Gray replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
I have one of the Walbro 12volt pumps David I purchased it in 1974 for a Truck i owned that had an intermittent fuel problem [resolved the problem before fitting the electric pump] and I have carried it around with me in various vehicles and used it on the odd occasion,it fires up every time so I can speak for its reliability after 40 odd years. The one I have has an adjustable flow rate.

Cheers Dave
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26 Apr 2014 11:33 #10 by DarrenWebster303
DarrenWebster303 replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
Airdog on 303 David, but its a little different for me, as electronic injectors don't like aerated fuel that much (& I don't like paying for new ones)

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26 Apr 2014 13:40 - 26 Apr 2014 13:46 #11 by Dean and Kaye Howells
Dean and Kaye Howells replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
At the risk of making this seem a bit complicated........................

On #413 we've got dual fuel gauges (which I haven't got round to wiring in yet) because I find the 'switched' single gauge annoying. I like to see what fuel I've got without mucking around with a switch.
With dedicated wiring from each sender unit to the dual gauges this will 'free up' the electrical change over switching for the (old) single fuel gauge sender. Why not back feed this old fuel gauge sender wire through the existing 'fuel manifold unit' (or whatever it's called) and use this to power individual dual electric fuel pumps, one at each tank ? The existing mechanical fuel pump could be bypassed and left as a second redundant pump to the two electric pumps.

No additional taps etc required and uses the original change over switch as per normal. Only potential complication could be if the fuel pump current draw is greater than the gauge switching can handle, then a relay(s) would be required.

Just a thought.

Deano :)
Last Edit: 26 Apr 2014 13:46 by Dean and Kaye Howells. Reason: more info

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26 Apr 2014 19:53 #12 by ABE
ABE replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
Hi Guys

Just remember that the fuel switch on the dash more than take fuel out of the left or right tank. It also returns fuel via the switch valve. So if you put in two fuel pumps that are electric then you have to have two return lines with a divider that returns it back to the tank that you are using as if you do not then you could return the excess fuel not being used, to a tank that is full already.

The switch on the dash at least in my LT's in any case can be used to activate the relay for the electric fuel pumps anyway, if you went down that track, but the dual fuel system in the OKA is a plus as it stands.

Incase anyone does not know ? The OKA fuel tank system in default mode is the left side, that is if you lose the power to change tanks, as I have done once. (Sand got into the plug on the connection on the fuel divider switch which has one section without one plug not being used and it is filled with silastic that came out, and sand and sea water got into it and I had to replace the whole unit.) Fuel is then automatically taken from the left tank in that case. That is why I run the right hand tank first, it is also the side with more weight in a bus configuration with seats, as we have more passengers on the right side the bus.

I also have the availability to be able to pump, electrically, to the left hand side, so it all reverts to the default setting. This is nice and simple and means I do not run out of fuel. The pump can also be used as the main fuel pump for the engine if the mechanical one falls by changing 1 hose.

Regards
ABE Tony

ABE Tony
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02 Jan 2016 06:06 #13 by Peter Davis
Peter Davis replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
Those who still have a perky and are running an electric fuel pump which one do you have and has it worked well?
The only info I can find on the mechanical pump is 6/10 psi static pressure and 4.5psi test pressure. No flow rate.
If one puts a pump in say 14psi and too high a flow, would I be right in saying the excess will pass through the injector pump and go back to the tank, or can it damage the injector pump. Is it better to over size rather than under size starving the engine.
Also what device did you install to kill the pump in case of an accident. Looking to find a 3 way oil pressure switch that allows starting but turns off when oil pressure is zero.
Candidates
Walbro FRB-5 8-11psi 170lph dry lift 1.2m pump cycles when fuel is demanded. $? stockiest ?
Carter rotary P4600HP 6-8psi 379lph $190
Carter rotary p4070 4-8 psi 180lph $145
Facet red top 6-7psi 132 lph $259
Goss ge003 5-9 psi 140lph $216

Cheer
Peter

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02 Jan 2016 06:38 #14 by Len208
Len208 replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
Hi Guys,just as a matter of interest,when I took 208 into Robin early in my ownership there was a slight leak at the pump,when I suggested to Robin that we change it he said there was no need as the fuel injection unit does the job by itself.I did change the pump however.But it seems there is a fallback position.

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02 Jan 2016 11:43 #15 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
The mechanical injection pumps will suck enough to run the engine but only under ideal light load conditions. Any restriction caused by filters, tired IP's etc will cause a loss of fuel pressure at higher revs along with a possible decrease in power. Something you definitely don't want with an Perky powered Oka. So yes most of the time the IP will happily run the engine to propel the vehicle along.
There is a case for "regular" replacement of the mechanical fuel pump as wear can cause fuel and oil leaks, even a pin hole in the diaphragm can lead to engine oil dilution and subsequent engine damage.
The mechanical pump also quite often ends up as the lowest point of the fuel system after the tank and can also suffer from any crap collecting there and subsequently affecting pump operation.
I carry an electrical pump and enough bits to fit it if the need arises.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
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02 Jan 2016 15:31 #16 by OKAPETE
OKAPETE replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
Hi Peter (Davis) In answer to your query re which fuel pump, I fitted the Facet one you have listed over 10 years ago in Oka 224 (Grizzly) when the mechanical one gave out when in Alice Springs. You can just see it on the left in this poor pic mounted to gearbox support

....Hasn't missed a beat since. Being Local you are more than welcome to pop over and check it out Peter. Pete.

Chaplain. Won x One Chaplaincy.
AM SAE-A. AAFRB.

Oka 383. In process.... Cummins 6bt. Allison 2500 6spd. NP205. Dana 80 F & R.
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02 Jan 2016 15:55 #17 by Ralley
Ralley replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
Even with the Cummins the lift pump is a known weakness. I had all sorts of starving problems when I first fitted the Cummins and ended up having the lift pump fail about 400kms north of Port Augusta. I limped into town and fitted an electric pump to get me home. I replaced the lift pump with a better low pressure lift pump and still had starving problems. I ended up fitting a surge tank right at the lift pump that is fed by an electric pump. The changeover valves must be a restriction. One of the upsides is I can now run the tanks right out and they are constantly being circulated through a good prefilter and the mechanical lift pump has unrestricted clean fuel. I also carry both pumps as spares. When I fitted the electric pump I got the one that was most likely to be available anywhere.
Rob

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03 Jan 2016 08:03 - 03 Jan 2016 08:14 #18 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)

Peter Davis wrote: Walbro FRB-5 8-11psi 170lph dry lift 1.2m pump cycles when fuel is demanded. $? stockiest ?
Goss ge003 5-9 psi 140lph $216

Cheer
Peter


Peter, Flexible Drive (P33 for specs) sell Walbro pumps. Don't know their price but ebay sources are likely to be cheaper. (I also bought new throttle cable from them).

Various Goss pumps are commonly sold by SuperCheap etc, at probably half the price you mentioned.

David

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03 Jan 2016 16:56 #19 by Peter334
Peter334 replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
I have twin fuel gauges ,twin switches and twin fuel pumps electric and mechanical ,I can turn on any time either tanks or just run from one I do not have that switch that you all have as I did away with it ,I run 2 solenoids on each tank with 1 line going to the engine through a filter then to the electric pump to the mechanical pump ,if the mech pump fails i switch 1 line and I can run of the elec pump, now I know what you are all thinking where does the return fuel go well not back to the tanks , it returns to the first filter and it makes way back to the engine ,the first filter is before the mech pump as I talked to a diesel mechanic and he said that would be ok and I have had no problems , with the wiring I cut out the old wiring and replaced it with new 7 core trailer wire and it works better than before , the electric pump is the same as Petes and I carry a spare ,cheers peter

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07 Jan 2016 18:49 #20 by Peter Davis
Peter Davis replied the topic: Electric Fuel Pump (extracted from Spotted an Oka)
Whilst sitting comfortably at 100kph the other day, the truck lost power. It felt like I was running out of fuel. The gauge was just over 1/4 full. Thinking that maybe the gauge was wrong, I swapped to the full tank of fuel. Power was quickly restored. Later filled up with fuel, turned on troublesome tank, no problems. Gauge was reading roughly right.
I thought maybe a blockage at the filter but it ran fine after filling up.
I thought maybe fuel pump was getting weak and was struggling when the tank was lower. Hence the latest looking into electric fuel pumps.
However after talking to a diesel injection firm, they advised not to change to an electric fuel pump and that my problem will more than likely be a cracked fuel tank pickup line. They said that an electric pump will have too high a pressure/flow especially at idle, low speed/power.
Any thoughts?
Has anyone removed the fuel pickup without dropping the fuel tank.
Cheers
Peter

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