Alloy wheels weight saving

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03 Nov 2012 07:05 #1 by dandjcr
dandjcr created the topic: Alloy wheels weight saving
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OKA4WD.com
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Extracted from another topic
From Dean & Kaye Howells:

If money was no object I'd ditch the 19.5" steel rims and replace them with 18" alloys to further reduce (unsprung) weight. The weight saving here would be big. I reckon about 240 Kg including the two spares.
April 17, 2010 at 11:54 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Hal Harvey
Site Owner
Posts: 510


Deano, that's your wheel/tyre on the left; the one on the right is 70mm wider, 80mm higher, and weighs 12 kg less! Not sure that you'd save 240kg but at a more normal size, saving 100kg would be easy.
--
Hal

April 17, 2010 at 11:59 AM Flag Quote & Reply

OKA4WD.com
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Posts: 412
From Dean & Kaye Howells:

Hi Hal,
I just weighed one of my wheels and it came in at 86 Kg. That's with a solid centred 19.5" rim and a Bridgestone 305/70R19.5 tyre.
From their site Pro Comp has 18" alloy rims (1550 Kg rating) with suitable centres at 12 Kg each and 35X12.5X18 (1550 Kg rating) at 31 Kg each for a total weight of 43 Kg per wheel. This is exactly half the weight per wheel that I have now. For six wheels this is a saving of 43 X 6 = 258 Kg. The big issue here is wether the load rating is safe/legal and if the combination is strong enough. For my setup 3 tonne per axle is more than I will ever need, but legal or practical I don't know. But still the potential weight saving is huge.

Deano
April 17, 2010 at 12:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Hal Harvey
Site Owner
Posts: 510
86kg - crikey! I had weighed that well-worn 19.5 pictured at 68kg on the bathroom scales, but it's a 285, not a 305. The 355/80R16LT (38.5" x 14.5") on the right weighed in at 55-odd kg with 100% tread (including 16x10 rim). I put the LT tyres (load rating E) on three years ago, and have had no problems at all with them. They get run at pressures between sub-20 on sand to 45lbs most times to 55lbs on long runs. The wheels are Pro Comp.
--
Hal

April 17, 2010 at 12:14 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Hal Harvey
Site Owner
Posts: 510
John Szkoruda is the only other owner I've spotted who has replaced his 19.5s with alloys. I don't have the details. Looks outstanding too.



--
Hal

April 17, 2010 at 12:32 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Dean & Kaye Howells
Member
Posts: 79
Thanks for the info Hal. The wheels I have are certainly tough. The rims are solid centred, that is not a rolled edge where they tie to the rim but a solid disc of 12mm (at least, haven't measured) steel. There is a continuous 10 mm, again havn't measured, fillet on both sides. The Bridgestone tyres are rated at 4400 lbs or 2 tonne capacity each. Bit of an overkill for me but a super solid combo. By the way Is that pro comp rim shown a steel rim ? Also what's a load rating E ? , I thought load ratings were numerical and speed ratings alphabetical. Have you changed diff. ratios to go with the large diameter wheels?
Wheels and tyres for me have been the source of much frustration, indecision and expense.
When I bought the OKA it had 8.25R16's on split rims which I found great driving home to Vic from Sydney, good gearing and managed 13.5 l/100 Km at 100K's coming home down the Hume Hwy. Unfortunately not what I wanted for outback driving. Agonised about buying 255/100's at $670 each and decided that 6 for $4000+ was too much to still have 16's and Australias rarest tyre. Also had to wait 2 months for Michelin to import some. Talk about frustrating.
So I bought some used 900R16 Michelin XY cleanskins for retreading. It took Bandag 6 weeks to achieve this feat and the result whilst good, they are still not as wide as I wanted. About this time Bridgestone had a good deal on the 305/70R19.5's and I managed to pick up the 19.5" rims at a fair price.
So here I am with more OKA wheels and tyres than I know what to do with and still looking for the elusive 'perfect' combination.
If anyone out there is running alloys I'd be interested to hear what rim/tyre combo's they are running. Especially the rims.
Any and all advice gratefully accepted.

Deano
April 17, 2010 at 7:32 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Hal Harvey
Site Owner
Posts: 510
My Pro Comp rims are alloy, but that particular style is discontinued. The max load is the same 1550kg (3420lbs) as their current 8-on-6.5 stud pattern wheels.

Load range E is an LT tyre thing, or I should say tire as in USA rating; cop this from tirerack.com, for what it’s worth:

Light Truck Tires
Since light truck tires are often available in multiple load ranges, the appropriate load range is identified immediately following the size's rim diameter in the Tire Rack's descriptions.
• LT-metric, LT-Flotation and LT-numeric tires will be branded with their load range ("Load Range E" or "LRE") or their ply rating ("10 Ply Rated") on their sidewalls and list their appropriate load range letter in their descriptions as LT245/75R-16E, 7.50R-15D or 31x10.50R-15C.
Common passenger, light truck and special trailer tire load ranges, equivalent ply ratings and load inflation pressures for radial ply tires are shown below:
Load Range, Ply Rating and Load Pressure for Light Truck Tires
Load Range Ply Rating Load Pressure (psi)
LT-metric B 4 35
LT-numeric C 6 50
Flotation LT* D 8 65
E 10 80
F 12 95

… which actually tells you a bit about ply ratings, but not much about load-carrying capacity. I know in Pro Comp some ‘D’ rating tyres will carry 3195lbs; and then some ‘E’ rating tyres will carry the same 3195lbs. Anyway the tyres I have are a max load of 3525lbs, or say 1600kg each; and with the wheels being a bit less, say 3100kg per axle. The max load on the rear axle of my Oka is meant to be 3400kg, but there’s no way I will ever get to 3100kg, let alone 3400kg. So I have no problem with that. It’s well in excess of any requirements for the front axle.

I also picked this up off a Hummer site. Hummers have pretty similar requirements to Okas…

It seems that more often than not getting the tires that you want is becoming a crap shoot. Last year I was looking for Toyos and you couldn't get any. This year you can get the Toyos but Goodyear is backordered.
This whole issue came up when Goodyear GSAs were on national backorder (10/2007) and I was looking for an alternate highway tire for the Hummer. In a conversation with Tom Cepek he suggested that I consider the Yokohama Geolander A/TS 37/12.50R-17 Load Range "D", which has a less aggressive tread than the GSA and would be a very good 'on road' tire. I was concerned that it was a load range 'D' and not 'E'.
The Yokohama and the Goodyear GSA both have a load capacity of 3525 @ 50 psi per tire. Since 50 PSI is the maximum amount of pressure you can put in the tire using the CTIS pump and gauges, for all practical purposes the tires are equal in the load they will carry. The difference is if you pumped the GSA up to 65 psi it could carry 4080 lbs. Over many years of using GSAs I have found that the correct pressure for good tire wear is 35 psi.
Add to that and regardless of the load range, both tires only have a two ply carcass.
Having said all that, if you are using your truck lightly loaded and not pulling a giant trailer there doesn't seem to be any difference using certain 'D' rated tires. Ultimately, the decision is up to you.

I haven’t changed diff ratios. I looked at it and the Dana 70 had next-lower (higher numerically) options of 5% or 20% difference; and I really only needed 9% to stay on par. That’s if I’m right in thinking that the standard diff ratio is 4.88. There’s a 5.38 ratio (10%) ratio available for the front diff, but not the rear, so that’s not a lot of use. I don’t think I would have noticed 5%, and to achieve a 20% difference, it appeared to be much cheaper to change down a gear than to change the diff ratios! There comes a time when you can’t do that any more of course, but LR-1st is still pretty low and I don’t think I’d notice the difference down there. At the other end, HR-5th, changing ratios from 4.88 to 5.86 was very much the same as changing from 5th to 4th. So I did nothing, and it really is OK as is.

By the way, don't count this as 'advice'; it could only apply to OKAs that are kept under the 5500kg GVM, and don't tow real heavy trailers. Some will be critical of using wheels & tyres that don't exceed the 3400kg rear axle figure, but I have no problem with it when the vehicle is kept light (in Oka terms, of course). I reckon there are probably a lot more Okas out there that are exceeding 5500kg GVM, and have ten-year-old tyres - and that has to be pushing your luck, really. Many vehicle manufacturers using Dana 70 rears rated them at 6200lb, not the 7500lb that Oka (and Dana) max them out at.
--
Hal

April 17, 2010 at 11:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

John & Laura Szkoruda
Member
Posts: 112
Hal Harvey at April 17, 2010 at 12:14 PM
86kg - crikey! I had weighed that well-worn 19.5 pictured at 68kg on the bathroom scales, but it's a 285, not a 305. The 355/80R16LT (38.5" x 14.5") on the right weighed in at 55-odd kg with 100% tread (including 16x10 rim). I put the LT tyres (load rating E) on three years ago, and have had no problems at all with them. They get run at pressures between sub-20 on sand to 45lbs most times to 55lbs on long runs. The wheels are Pro Comp.
Hi Guys,
Yes we have saved MANY kilo's also our old stock 19.5rims & tyres weighed in at 82Kg each, the new rims & tyres weigh 43kg. BIG difference. I can actually pick the new rims / tyres without too much trouble, so when we are outback if anyhting happened to John & he was disabled I could change the tyre, No hope of doing that with the old rims , way too heavy. Our wheels are Eagle Alloys 16" x 10"load rated to 1550kg or better & tyres are Coopers ATR also laod rated same. Not happy with the Coopers tyres so we are buying mickey Thompson possibly the ATR or Deck Cepek FCII not sure yet which one. Both of the tyres have a load rating of 1700kg in the size we are getting slightly bigger than the Cooper's , but not quite as big as Hal's. I think they are 36 or 37" but the rolling diameter is nearly same as the standard 19.5" .
So with 5 tyres & wheels replaced we saved approx' 200kg and the ride is much better, smoother not so rough as the old rims. We have done the Old Telegraph Line to Cape York, Weipa, Chilli Beach & back to Sydney, Sydney to Cairns MANY times ( family there ) & to Ceduna via the coast of SA from Adelaide, from Whyalla to Melbourne via coast ( following all the dirt tracks ) and Kangaroo Island all with the new wheels & tyres.Love them. Johns brother has just bought an Oka from the guys on the Gold Coast, (Soothern Cross 4WD Tours ) and he is going to put the same wheels & tyres on his also.
Obviously not everyones cupof tea but we wouldn't go back to the original wheels.
Hope this helps Regards, Laura Szkoruda OKA 147
April 26, 2010 at 11:39 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Hal Harvey
Site Owner
Posts: 510
The Glen Mervyn Dam rally revealed Rob Thomas' XT 162 with its alloys as well, as below...



If you can't read the sizing on that, it was LT315/75R16, which gives a diameter of 34.6". A standard-ish OKA with 19.5" wheels might have 285/70R19.5s, which have a diameter of 35.2" (265s are 34.1", 305s are 36.3").
--
Hal

April 28, 2010 at 12:34 AM Flag Quote & Reply

John & Laura Szkoruda
Member
Posts: 112
Hi Hal,
What brand of tyres has Rob got on his Oka???. How has he found them performance & wear wise & howlong has he had them???As I said we are looking at new tyres for ours as the Coopers are cr......... Not happy with them at all, so looking for new tyres.
How have you found the pro comp tyres??? We do a lot of dirt/rocky road work as well as sand. The tyre size we are after is the same as Rob's ( I think ).
Regards,
Laura Szkoruda

April 28, 2010 at 7:54 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Hal Harvey
Site Owner
Posts: 510
Laura,
They were BFGoodrich All-Terrains on Rob's, which were proving good; I have had the same series of BFGs on another vehicle in the past and was 100% happy with them; and somebody else at Glen Mervyn was also praising them. So if they do a size that works for you, you will probably be happy with them. Rob's had them tooo long - hasn't been doing enough long trips! - so they're only half-worn after seven years, but I don't know how many km that is. From my own experience with the other vehicle, their life expectancy is fine.

I've found the Pro Comp Xtreme A/Ts just wonderful in every respect, but maybe I'm lucky - I believe they're made by Cooper! Of course that could be one of those out-of-control internet rumours; Cooper themselves don't do any of their own-brand range as tall as my Pro Comps. If I had to buy 315/75R16s, I would be tossing up between BFG All-Terrains and Pro Comp Xtreme A/Ts; and I really don't know which way I'd go...
--
Hal

May 4, 2010 at 3:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

John & Laura Szkoruda
Member
Posts: 112
Thanks Hal, thought they looked like BFG.
Yes we have always run BFG on all of our 4x4's previously & NEVER had a problem with them even through gibber desert etc, but these Coopers are another story. Think we will either go with BFG or Mickey Thompson or Pro Comp but NEVER EVER Coopers again. We are coming over to WA this weekend, son has had an accident & is in Royal Perth hospital so if we get a chance might give you a call, dont know whether we will get the chance though.
When we get back John will probably have a chat to Rob re his tyres.
--
John & Laura Szkoruda OKA 147

May 5, 2010 at 2:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Dean & Kaye Howells
Member
Posts: 79
What problems have you had with Cooper tyres that have left you so averse to them ? I ask this because I have had several sets of them on various 4WD's, though on nothing as heavy as the OKA, over the years and have found them great. I've had AT's, ATR's and several sets of ST's all of varying sizes on 16" rims. My only criticism would be that the harsh stony roads of outback SA tend to chop the ST's up a bit but this is why Cooper bought out the STT's which I havn't tried. I've only had two flats in 250.000+ Km, both of them last year. One a rock through the sidewall at 30 Km/h and 25psi on the 'road' from Mt Dare to Dalhousie Springs, which considering the road can't be blamed on the tyre and a sliver of rock through the centre of the tread groove on the track into Mornington Wilderness Lodge off the Gibb River Road whilst towing a caravan. Again luck of the draw. The first tyre a write off after 3000 Km but the second repairable. I guess your experience has been worse ?
One of the reasons I was considering 18" alloys is that the range of tyres available seems better as to load rating than with 16" rims.

Deano
May 6, 2010 at 7:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

John & Laura Szkoruda
Member
Posts: 112
Hi Dean & Kaye,
Yes we have Cooper ATR ( As recommended by Coopers NSW State Sales Rep personally ) .On our trip to Cape York last year the side wall split open ( just like someone had put a knofe through it ) on dirt road doing about 10 klm/hr, but itwasn't a bad road ,just a very tight track, the tyre had only done about 2000 klm's, the other one was 2 months later in Mt Compass SA, on a dirt road ( main road not a bush track ) & a rock went through the centre of the tyre between the tread heard it go stopped & changed tyre, went straight to tyre service UNREPAIRABLE. The top edges of the tread blocks have chunks out of them, they seem like a very soft rubber compound, we bought 6, only have 4 left now & we haven't even done 25,000 klms yet, most of which has been on the tar. Not happy Jan!!!! Coopers said the side wall shouldn't have done that but they dont want to know about it, won't even replace the tyre pro rata, just virtually said too bad.
We spoke to about 20 - 25 other people on the Cape York trip all driving various types of 4x4 from Hi Lux to Patrols & Cruisers & they all had the same problem.
John's brother , who has just bought Oka 190 from the gold coast is in 4x club a very big one, & most of the members with Coopers have had the same problems & Coopers won't honour their warranty. So we just wont buy them again will go back to BFG or probably Mickey Thompson they have an even higher load rating, the ones we are looking at are rated 1700kg.
Yes there are a bigger range of 17 & 18 tyres now that are load rated when we first put ours on there wasnt too much choice. Our wheels are Eagle alloys 16 x 10 load rated. We''ve not had a problem with the wheels and the weight saving is amazing.The Oka rides a lot smoother both on tar & dirt, wouldn't go back to the 19.5's.
If you need more info John can give you any technical stuuf, but we will be away for a couple of weeks??? have to head to Perth for family, not sure how long we will bw there.
Regards Laura & John Szkoruda
May 7, 2010 at 3:11 PM Flag Quote & Reply

John & Laura Szkoruda
Member
Posts: 112
Dean & Kaye Howells at May 6, 2010 at 7:19 PM
What problems have you had with Cooper tyres that have left you so averse to them ? I ask this because I have had several sets of them on various 4WD's, though on nothing as heavy as the OKA, over the years and have found them great. I've had AT's, ATR's and several sets of ST's all of varying sizes on 16" rims. My only criticism would be that the harsh stony roads of outback SA tend to chop the ST's up a bit but this is why Cooper bought out the STT's which I havn't tried. I've only had two flats in 250.000+ Km, both of them last year. One a rock through the sidewall at 30 Km/h and 25psi on the 'road' from Mt Dare to Dalhousie Springs, which considering the road can't be blamed on the tyre and a sliver of rock through the centre of the tread groove on the track into Mornington Wilderness Lodge off the Gibb River Road whilst towing a caravan. Again luck of the draw. The first tyre a write off after 3000 Km but the second repairable. I guess your experience has been worse ?
One of the reasons I was considering 18" alloys is that the range of tyres available seems better as to load rating than with 16" rims.

Deano
Just dug out the info on the wheels for you. As I said they are Eagle alloys 16 x 10", 8 stud, on 6.5"centre ( or 165.1 ) with a 4 1/2 inch back spacing. Our design is Eagle 0589. Wheel nuts 5/8".
There is a dealer in Victoria , according to the brochure I have ,( its a bit old now) B.G. Wheels in Tottenham phone number 03 93251533. I believe they are imported from USA & go up to 20", just have to make sure that you get the load rating. Hope this helps.
Regards,

Laura Szkoruda
May 7, 2010 at 3:22 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Hal Harvey
Site Owner
Posts: 510
They are the same specs as my Pro Comps, 16 x 10, 8-on-6.5 stud pattern (which always seems to mean the highest load rating), 4.5" backspacing. Common enough because the older F250s used the same, so there are plenty of style options. I picked mine out of the Pro Comp website and ordered them through F-Trucks in Welshpool, WA.
--
Hal

May 7, 2010 at 7:47 PM Flag Quote & Reply

John & Laura Szkoruda
Member
Posts: 112
Yes I believe the old F250's are the same , there are other styles Proc Comp & Eagles both have several probably other manufacturers too. Just watch the stud pattern & the back spacing .
Regards,
Laura
May 8, 2010 at 9:28 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Frank Mercuri and Pam Usher
Member
Posts: 2
Hi all,
I'm not sure that I'm going to add much to the debate that hasn't already been said and I figure the tyre debate is a bit like whats the best fridge but here goes...

I purchased 410 with standard rims and 255/100R16 Michelins and didn't think much of them so went on the hunt and finally arrived at 18" ProComp alloy rims and 35"x13.5" Xtreme All Terrain tyres. My logic went something like this:
The rims were rated at 1550 kilos which comes in at the legal max for the rear and exceeds the legal max for the front.
The 13.5'x18 tyres have a load rating at 1750 kilos so gives a little bit of added margin as opposed to the 12.5"x18 or most of the 16' tyres at 1600 kilos or less
I felt the 18" tyres were a good sidewall height compromise for ride and comfort and I wanted something flexible to be able to run low pressures in sand without damaging the sidewall structure, I think the 10 to 14 ply truck tyres are too stiff whcih is why I decided against the 19.5"s.
I thought about the problem with finding an 18" tyre in Upper Kumbukta West and decide that everytime I go that far afield I'll carry 3 spares, 1 of them being a 35"x12.5"x16" tyre and rim matching the 18"s in pattern and rolling radius, in town I can leave two at home or not depending on how lazy I am.
Bought the tyres, wheels and nuts from ProComp and had the wheels modified at Eastern Wheel Works in Lilydale.
Cost for tyres was reasonable and I could have saved quite a bit if i had settled for the 16" option, and they have a few options on tread pattern.

My experience thus far is one trip to White Cliffs via Meninddee Lakes and Broken Hill over 10 days or so and then the Canning Stock Route, South to North and back home via Mt Isa over 7 weeks or so.
I had heard all the horror stories about the Canning and tyres and the toll it takes. I was in a party of 4 vehicles and we had one flat tyre between us, a tech screw picked up at Durba Springs camp ground in the Nissan Navara. I ran the tyres on the Oka at 18 psi front and 20 psi rear for almost all of the Canning, sand, rocks and corrugations, and no flats or stakes. The tyres certainly chipped a bit and the front right has worn badly due to front right wheel needing alignment/resetting of camber but in all other respects the tyres perfomed great.

They will not be a long wearing tyre but they are a comfortable tyre both on road (at 50 psi or thereabouts) and off. No point guessing at how many Ks at this stage but I'm sure that they will be pretty similar to the Michellins on the rig when I bought it but nowhere near as good as a good set of 19.5's
And I did weigh my steel rims and 16' Michellins just to see why i couldn't lift them off the ground and I came up with just under 80 kg per wheel. The alloys and 18's come in at just under 50kg so I'm still 50 kg lighter when I carry two extra fully mounted spares so I guess that's a bonus in itself..

Cheers all

Frank M

June 9, 2010 at 5:59 PM

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