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Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?

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01 Aug 2016 11:23 #1 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret created the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
Local truck joint just quoted me $45 per wheel for balancing.
Tyre beads are probably similar.....

Cheers,
Peter

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01 Aug 2016 11:45 #2 by Dave and Pauline Gray
Dave and Pauline Gray replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
Peter
I have used balance powder for a number of years ,last time I purchased couple of bags it was $35 per bag /wheel its in there for the duration of the tyres life unless you suffer a blowout of some sort and has worked well for me in both the Okas tyres and the trucks I owned from 1998 onwards.
Draw back is the powder can contaminate the valves and can be hard to get them to seal once they have been disturbed so I carry a number of spare valves for occasions such as lowering pressures for off highway travel.
Even so saved me a lot of money over the years in continually get them balanced with lead weights.

Cheers Dave

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01 Aug 2016 12:13 #3 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
Thanks Dave.
I see there are glass, lead, S/S balls.....as well as powder.
What quantity per tyre?

Cheers,
Peter

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01 Aug 2016 12:55 #4 by Chris
Chris replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
Hi Peter

I've had ceramic beads in my tyres for approx 4 years and have had no problems.

I think I bought them from here www.innovativebalancing.com/ They had an Aus site but I bought them from the States.

Cheers
Chris

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01 Aug 2016 13:16 #5 by Dave and Pauline Gray
Dave and Pauline Gray replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
I have never investigated the others Peter, the powder comes in small plastic bags which disintegrate when the wheels start revolving and is pre weighed for truck tyres. Not all tyre distributers supply the powder balance I will give my tyre man a bell an get you the brand name etc if you wish.

Cheers Dave

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01 Aug 2016 14:13 #6 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
I came across a mob in Sydney. I posted the info up here before, It was a steel ring.

Rob 169 had them fitted

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01 Aug 2016 15:43 #7 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
When we had the humvee myself and other H1 Hummer owners tried various ways of balancing the tyres and wheels as they were notoriously hard to balance and went out of balance as the tyres wore.
Those with CTIS couldn't use any of the powder/shot/sand/beads as it blocked the air system and caused a lot of grief. So they used the Centramatics (the steel ring that OJ was referring to)which work very well and are seperate to the wheel, actually mount on the wheel studs behind the wheel.
Those of us that didn't have CTIS tried most of the other varieties and the lead shot seemed to work the best as the powders despite having screened valves (valves with a tiny filter on the end) would cause havoc with every deflation/deflation as Dave said. Tyre repairs were also made a deal harder as cleaning the tyre and rim was necessary every time.
The beads and lead shot work ok but did strip any paint off the inside of the wheel eventually.
The cheapest way was to use air rifle pellets or cast your own lead shot from scrap lead.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

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01 Aug 2016 17:13 #8 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?

Peter and Sandra OKA 374 wrote: The cheapest way was to use air rifle pellets or cast your own lead shot from scrap lead.

That did occur to me....I wonder if shape is important and if size makes any difference?
I have a bit of lead about....

Cheers,
Peter

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01 Aug 2016 17:34 #9 by Ralley
Ralley replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
I have been running the Centramatics for about 40000kms now and they work for me. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again, just wish I could get them for the Cruiser.

Rob
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01 Aug 2016 18:55 - 01 Aug 2016 19:03 #10 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
About 3mm minimum diameter would be about right Peter but you could get away with slightly larger.

Rob they used to/might still do make one with a blank centre and you drill your own stud holes.
One of the Hummer owners had them on a Patrol with big tyres with no problems.
One of the blokes also made his own, ball bearings in the tube in ATF and they worked well

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.
Last Edit: 01 Aug 2016 19:03 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374. Reason: addendum

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02 Aug 2016 10:04 #11 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
www.adelaidegunshop.com.au/our-products....d=742&category_id=30
Might get some of that I reckon - 10kg for $90. About 400g per wheel.
Anyone in Adelaide want to go halves?

Cheers,
Peter

Cheers, Peter.
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02 Aug 2016 17:05 #12 by Aussie Iron
Aussie Iron replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
Rate that I use is 1oz per 10lbs of tyre. I use a cheap type of stainless (can be picked up with a magnet) that I recollect when I change my tyres and reuse. Never had a problem and I do air down and up when needed. They are big enough that they don't block the valve stem.

Dan.

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03 Aug 2016 06:34 #13 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
Peter, I'll go halves with you, I've been teetering on the brink for some time.

Centramatics sound good but are expensive. Lead shot seems to solve the gumming up the valves problem without causing too much internal damage.

Might not get around to installing them for a while until Janet is back on her feet (recovering from a brain tumour operation).

David

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03 Aug 2016 09:28 - 03 Aug 2016 09:29 #14 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?

dandjcr wrote: Peter, I'll go halves with you, I've been teetering on the brink for some time.

Centramatics sound good but are expensive. Lead shot seems to solve the gumming up the valves problem without causing too much internal damage.

Might not get around to installing them for a while until Janet is back on her feet (recovering from a brain tumour operation).

David

All the best to Janet for a fast recovery......
I ordered the shot yesterday - about 3.2mm diameter. Not a common size. Will probably take about 2 weeks to get here.
I will try it out on the 2 front wheels first before adding it to the rest.

Cheers,
Peter

Cheers, Peter.
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Last Edit: 03 Aug 2016 09:29 by Peter_n_Margaret.

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08 Aug 2016 16:34 #15 by TR
TR replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
I have used powder balance since I bought OKA 124 two years ago. The original set of tires on the vehicle were Toyo 285/70R/19.5 and were balanced with 230gm of powder. The front imbalance that I had was completely eliminated within about 8 km of driving after the powder bags were added to the tires. After about 30,000 km, because of normal wear and staking a front tire, I decided to fit a new set of tires all round, moving the best of the originals to the spare. Of the four new tires only two could be balanced with powder so on advice from Toyo the powder was removed from the two tires that did not balance and conventional lead weight balancing was attempted. These two tires could not be properly balanced with conventional lead weights, even going up to 450 gm. Toyo advised that if 200 gm per side would not balance the tire then the tire was defective and so they were returned for replacement. Two new tires arrived and despite being advised against doing so, I insisted on powder balancing these two replacement tires. One was fine the other could not be balanced with powder or conventional lead weights and so it also was returned for replacement. The third replacement tire was balanced, at Toyo's insistance with conventional lead weights and required 150 gm on the outside and 60 gm on the inside. I have yet to remove these weights and try powder, but I believe this tire will balance with powder.

During the time I had these problems I made some inquires about different balancing methods and turned up one paper titled TESTING AND UNDERSTANDING EQUAL, A TIRE/WHEEL ASSEMBLY VIBRATION REDUCER. This paper was interesting because it confirmed (first paragraph page 5) something I had found empirically, i.e. adding even slightly more than the recommended weight of powder lessened the balancing effect. When the second replacement tire would not balance with the recommended 230 gm (C Bag) the tire was cleaned out and a 280 gm (B Bag) was tried, this rather than improving the balance actually made it a lot worse, so much so that the vehicle became dangerous and almost uncontrollable at about 65 km/h. For 285/70R/19.5 tires the 230 gm (C Bag) is recommended for use when the tires are run as singles and the 280 gm (B Bag) is recommended when the tires are run as duels.

As mentioned by others the powder does sometimes lodge in the valve seal and prevents the valve from sealing. This was a minor annoyance when deflating and re-inflating the tires frequently as it required bouncing the valve to spit out the lodged powder, or as I usually did, simply screw on the metal valve caps with internal rubber seals. I have external tire pressure and temperature monitors fitted on a second valve stem and the powder has caused no problems with the sensors.

I currently have four powder balance tires (including the spare) and one conventional lead balance tire which I believe will balance with powder, when I get the time to put powder in. I purchased the Equal powder bags from my local tire supplier for $15 per bag (i.e. per wheel).

Have attached the above referenced paper and the Equal-Application Chart for light trucks as it gives the weight of powder required for dfiferent tire sizes.
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08 Aug 2016 16:44 #16 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
Interesting that their science breaks down entirely when you add just a little extra (becomes dangerous at a very low speed???) so why wouldn't the same thing happen if you add the recommended amount to a tyre that was in perfect balance out of the mould.
Science that is not consistent may not be science at all.

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01 Sep 2016 18:14 - 01 Sep 2016 18:22 #17 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
Installed the lead shot to 2 front wheels this morning.
Removed the balance weights (there was a small out of balance noticeable) and added 400g of shot to each wheel.
Went for a drive at up to 110kph.
Only one comment - It works!

Then did the 2 spares that were recently painted and have 2nd hand tyres fitted. I balanced the rims on their own by gluing some lead sheet inside the rim before fitting the tyres.
Very simple to add the shot. A spray of lanoline to help re seating. All pretty painless. Cost, under $4 per wheel.



Cheers,
Peter

Cheers, Peter.
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Last Edit: 01 Sep 2016 18:22 by Peter_n_Margaret.
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01 Sep 2016 22:05 #18 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?

Peter_n_Margaret wrote: Then did the 2 spares that were recently painted and have 2nd hand tyres fitted. I balanced the rims on their own by gluing some lead sheet inside the rim before fitting the tyres.

Peter


Peter, good news but what made you balance the rims first? To make the lead shot more effective?

David

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02 Sep 2016 09:20 #19 by Dave and Pauline Gray
Dave and Pauline Gray replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?
Like the injection system bit worried about a blowout in heavy traffic LOL

Cheers Dave

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02 Sep 2016 09:44 - 02 Sep 2016 09:45 #20 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Tyre ballance beads - Pros and cons?

dandjcr wrote: Peter, good news but what made you balance the rims first? To make the lead shot more effective?

Why not?
I did that when I expected to use conventional balancing. It was an interesting exercise on its own. The 4 rims I did required 30g, 30g, 60g and 100g to balance them. Seems sensible to at least start with an assembly that is as good as possible.
None of those were the ones I have tested with the shot, so far, so I don't know what influence that had.

Cheers,
Peter

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Last Edit: 02 Sep 2016 09:45 by Peter_n_Margaret.

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