Dana 70

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08 Dec 2016 10:04 #21 by Dean and Kaye Howells
Dean and Kaye Howells replied the topic: Dana 70

OKABloke wrote: Contact Paul Knott, East Coast OKA's
He will have the parts and Advice you need


X2

Contact Paul, he's got years of experience with Dana stuff and in particular the Oka 'variants'. He will certainly have the parts and knowledge you need. +61 418 125 428.

Deano :)
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08 Dec 2016 13:10 #22 by OKA in Africa
OKA in Africa replied the topic: Dana 70
Hello David,
looks like you did the upgrade (35 splines and Dana LSD) which I am considering now. Can I call you on a phone number or skype?
Thanks

Thank you and best regards

OKA #327 in Africa
www.oka4wd.com/forum/members-vehicles-pu...47-oka-327-in-africa

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09 Dec 2016 05:12 #23 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Dana 70

OKA in Africa wrote: Hello David,
looks like you did the upgrade (35 splines and Dana LSD) which I am considering now. Can I call you on a phone number or skype?
Thanks


Grischa, my axle shafts were already 35 spline, but changing from an open diff to an LSD is still much the same job as you are contemplating.

See my message for contact arrangements.

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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09 Dec 2016 05:26 #24 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Dana 70

Dean and Kaye Howells wrote:

OKABloke wrote: Contact Paul Knott, East Coast OKA's
He will have the parts and Advice you need

X2
Contact Paul, he's got years of experience with Dana stuff and in particular the Oka 'variants'. He will certainly have the parts and knowledge you need. +61 418 125 428.
Deano :)


Deano and others, I have recommended to Grischa that he contacts Paul and/or Dean as I found a genuine Dana 70 LSD quite difficult to track down in 2014. But being in South Africa he'll still need our practical experience/advice/knowledge on how to get the job done, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's done it.

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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09 Dec 2016 08:20 #25 by Dean and Kaye Howells
Dean and Kaye Howells replied the topic: Dana 70
Thanks David, Paul dropped in yesterday on one of his 'delivery rounds' (any excuse to sample Kayes Anzac biscuits) and we both groaned over OIA's photo's. Yes he does have all the parts OIA needs from a complete (disk to disk) new old stock LSD rear axle to individual components.

I'm noting this here as Paul doesn't have a PC, as many already know, so it's difficult to converse with him via our forum but he can be be texted or I can pass a message along if need be. :)

OIA, I think going for the 35 spline and LSD upgrade will give the best result in the long term. I did this mod on #413 shortly after we acquired it along with a front LSD and HD outer axles and knuckles and haven't looked back. With a bribe of one of Kayes roast dinners and lemon meringue pie he also let me help him install the diff centres as well ! :) :)

Deano :)

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13 Dec 2016 22:57 - 13 Dec 2016 23:00 #26 by OKA in Africa
OKA in Africa replied the topic: Dana 70
I have ordered two new shafts, a limited slip differential (LSD) and a master installation kit from the US - ECGS ( eastcoastgearsupply.com ).
They recommended:
A) eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-7600857-dana-6...-35-spline-36-5.html need 2 of these
B) eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-126947-dana-70...tall-kit-master.html 1 of these
C) eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-132991-dana-70...spline-3-series.html one of these but the correct one 35 spline 4 series

I hope that the correct parts will arrive as soon as possible.

Regarding oil:
What oil do I have to /should I use for the LSD.
ECGS wrote " we use 85W-140 Non Synthetic Lucas Oil in every differential that we build". I did hear that an LSD requires special oil?
Can I still use the diff oil which I did use for the standard diff ( Castrol Axle EPX 80W 90 oil )?
Or shall I use an Castrol Axle Z Limited Slip 90 oil ?

Thank you and best regards

OKA #327 in Africa
www.oka4wd.com/forum/members-vehicles-pu...47-oka-327-in-africa
Last Edit: 13 Dec 2016 23:00 by OKA in Africa.

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14 Dec 2016 06:43 - 14 Dec 2016 07:15 #27 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Dana 70
Grischa, yes LSD's should use a special LSD oil.

This text is from a Mobil document :

Another important consideration when it comes to differential fluid is the requirements of the limited slip, or traction-sensing differential. In a normal or “open” differential, the torque, or twist, created by the driveline is always applied to both wheels, regardless of whether one of those wheels happens to be spinning helplessly on an icy surface. A limited slip differential (LSD) will sense this loss of energy and redirect torque to the wheel that has the most traction.

While there are various types of mechanisms used to accomplish this miracle of redirected traction, most of them require friction modifiers unique to their own design to work correctly. An LSD without these special lubricants will at best not work correctly, and at worst fail outright, ending up costing a bundle to rebuild and repair. If your vehicle has an LSD, always be sure to use gear oil that contains the correct friction modifiers for that particular LSD.


I use a non-synthetic (ie mineral) 85W140 LSD oil, pretty much as recommended by ECGS. Mine is Nulon , an Aussie make, but any reputable brand of 85W140 LSD mineral oil would do. Synthetic oils are good and cost a bit more but apparently don't mix well with mineral oils.

LSD oils can also be used with standard open diffs so only one type is needed.

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
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Last Edit: 14 Dec 2016 07:15 by dandjcr.
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16 Dec 2016 18:53 #28 by OKA in Africa
OKA in Africa replied the topic: Dana 70
Thanks for all your help so far. This technical issue is by far the worst I had with the OKA.
I am now waiting for the parts to arrive in South Africa and hope that they will fit.
Unfortunately it is just before christmas which might delay the whole repair to next year!

Not sure yet if I will bring the diff for repair to a workshop or will do it with a friend who has substantial experience.

The main issues why I am reluctant to do the work myself is:
A) Adjustments - the adjustments (backlash, preloads, etc.) required seem to be quite complicated.
B) Accessibility - The axle is still in the vehicle and I wonder if I could do the works without removing it. However, having the axle installed will make the works probably even more difficult.
C) Tools - It seems there are some special tools needed for the adjustments. Not sure if I have them.

Questions:
Old ring gear, old pinion gear and the bearings look in very good condition.
- I will fit the old ring gear onto the new carrier. I assume that, since new carrier bearings will be installed on a new (and different type LSD), I have to adjust the backlash using the shims supplied?
- I removed the pinion gear form the housing. Do I need to adjust pinion gear preload and/or shims if I fit and tighten the pinion gear the same way when I removed it?
- Which bearings should I (or do I have to) change against the new ones from the new installation kit?

Thank you and best regards

OKA #327 in Africa
www.oka4wd.com/forum/members-vehicles-pu...47-oka-327-in-africa

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16 Dec 2016 19:31 #29 by PeteFox
PeteFox replied the topic: Dana 70
OIA
It will all fit. I have done this conversion before using the exact same parts that you have ordered.

First up you will need access to a press.
If you are using the same crown-wheel and pinion and the pinion engagement was ok before then this won't change, you can just put the pinion assembly back. If you need to replace the pinion bearings then you'll have to reset the pinion depth by adding/removing shims.
You will need to adjust the pinion backlash which is also done by adding/removing shims from under one of the bearings. These bearing are a decent press fit. Each time you change shims you will have to press the bearing on and off. This will get quite tedious. You need to get another bearing (cone) and grind out the inside diameter so that it will just slip onto the carrier (dummy bearing). Use this bearing to adjust the backlash and when it is ok, remove it and press on the new bearing from the kit.

This is a real PITA job, you may or may not have to make a diff spreader to get the carrier in and out, don't overdo it, the diff housing will only stand so much stretch, use a dial gauge to stay within the limits

It is much easier to do the job with the diff out of the truck, sitting on blocks with the nose down using an overhead crane or block and tackle, as its very heavy and awkward.



When cutting the axles make sure they are not too long, if in doubt make then a few mm shorter.

This is not the sort of job to be done in a driveway and as you've invested a lot of money in parts, I'd be investing some more on good quality labour.
Pete

Pete Fox OKA266 MultiCab
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17 Dec 2016 06:37 - 17 Dec 2016 07:24 #30 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Dana 70

OKA in Africa wrote: The main issues why I am reluctant to do the work myself is:
A) Adjustments - the adjustments (backlash, preloads, etc.) required seem to be quite complicated.
B) Accessibility - The axle is still in the vehicle and I wonder if I could do the works without removing it. However, having the axle installed will make the works probably even more difficult.
C) Tools - It seems there are some special tools needed for the adjustments. Not sure if I have them.

Questions:
Old ring gear, old pinion gear and the bearings look in very good condition.
- I will fit the old ring gear onto the new carrier. I assume that, since new carrier bearings will be installed on a new (and different type LSD), I have to adjust the backlash using the shims supplied?
- I removed the pinion gear form the housing. Do I need to adjust pinion gear preload and/or shims if I fit and tighten the pinion gear the same way when I removed it?
- Which bearings should I (or do I have to) change against the new ones from the new installation kit?


I have sent OIA some pics of my LSD install job which was essentially as Pete has described.

It is not a quick (took me 2 weeks on and off) or easy job (requires a fair bit of mechanical knowledge and experience) and the diff is heavy (and requires several install attempts to set things up). I removed the axle removed from the Oka which I think made it much easier to work on. I can’t see how I could have done it from underneath.

I didn’t write up my experience since we were getting ready for a trip but this Dropbox link (7.5mb) shows most of my photos (no titles or descriptions but indicates the extent of the job). To view the photos, click on the link, then download and open the folder (you may have to unzip it) and double click on the index.html file. That should open a page in your browser with clickable thumbnails (90 odd pics).

To answer OIA’s questions:

A) Yes the shim adjustments are a bit of a drag and require several install/removal steps. Set up bearings are very useful/essential for that. They can be bought or made from honing out an old pair (takes an hour or so with a drill and sandpaper cylinder(s)). The pinion shouldn’t need to be touched if it’s set up OK.

B) I think removing the axle made it much easier. It’s not a difficult task to remove the axle (there’s not much holding it on) but it is a heavy and potentially dangerous job. The Oka rear end needs to be supported quite high and the axle is very heavy to manoeuvre (I made a trolley from car moving dollys).

C). A dial gauge is required for setting up backlash.
A micrometer is useful to measure shim thickness (and I wrote the thickness on each one in Texta).
A heavy vice is needed to hold the diff while the ring gears is installed (with a 130ft-lbs torque wrench). Rope the diff to a ceiling beam or similar so if it slips out of the vice it won't hit you or the concrete.
Heavy stands required to hold the Oka up while the axle is removed. You need a lot of space too.
I used a neck brace strap to take the diff weight while installing, to allow my hands to hold the bearings. I didn't need a spreader (for either diffs).
A press would have been useful for installing the final bearings but it can be (and was) done using a block of wood and hammer, after heating the bearings in boiling water to expand them.
Most other workshop tools are fairly standard.

Old ring gear can be reused (with new bolts). In fact it should be reused unless damaged/worn, as it's factory matched to the pinion gear.

The pinion can be replaced if no shims have been removed, it’s setting should be retained. However if it’s already out, replacing it’s bearing is advisable, can’t be done once the diff is back, but pinion depth will need setting up. I didn’t do that to save time but I should have done.

More experiences available if required.

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.
Last Edit: 17 Dec 2016 07:24 by dandjcr.

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07 Apr 2018 21:52 #31 by OKA in Africa
OKA in Africa replied the topic: Dana 70
Hello,

thanks for all your input and help to sort out the broken shaft issue on my rear axle. I finally upgraded to a 35 spline axle with a limited slip differential. All parts were sent by eastcoastgearsupply.com in the US to South Africa and fitted a a local company specializing on differential repairs.
OKA 327 is back on the road for a while and we did a couple of nice trips in South Africa. More information about the trips are on the website www.boteti.de .

While on the last OKA trip, I did change the rear diff oil. The rear diff cover has a magnet ring installed inside the cover to collect tiny metal pieces. I removed the ring to clean it and broke the ring when I replaced it. I hope this might be a generic part, which I do not have to order from the US. Any suggestions were to get a replacement ring?

Thanks


Thank you and best regards

OKA #327 in Africa
www.oka4wd.com/forum/members-vehicles-pu...47-oka-327-in-africa
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08 Apr 2018 05:11 #32 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Dana 70
OKIA you could use pretty much any magnet of a similar size, its just there to collect any metal particles as the diff wears.
Chunks stuck to it of course would be a case for investigation.
I've seen strips of that thin magnetic stuff used on calendars etc to stick them to the fridge used as well.
A few on the inside of the tin cover would suffice.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

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08 Apr 2018 06:28 - 08 Apr 2018 07:37 #33 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Dana 70
OIA, if you have any old car speakers, they have a powerful ring magnet inside you could extract.

Magnetic plugs are available from ebay quite cheaply, but the problem with a Dana diff is that there is no drain plug (unless you fit one) and the filler plug is above the oil level much of the time.

A magnet low down on the inside is best as long as it clears rotating parts. Ditto what George said below.

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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Last Edit: 08 Apr 2018 07:37 by dandjcr.

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08 Apr 2018 07:12 #34 by fran philipson
fran philipson replied the topic: Dana 70
OIA,
There is no reason the magnet can't be used like it is. It will still do the same job.
Regards George

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08 Apr 2018 08:35 - 08 Apr 2018 08:36 #35 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Dana 70
Do people end up with much in the way of metal on the magnet?

I suppose any metal mean it needs attention "smart quick"?
Last Edit: 08 Apr 2018 08:36 by Holmz.

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09 Apr 2018 06:04 #36 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Dana 70
Hi Holmz, it is usual to find a mass of metal filings on the magnet (often called 'glitter'), i had more than usual when i installed my new centre and gears. If you get 'chunks' then it's worth investigating! cheers, alister

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09 Apr 2018 06:41 - 09 Apr 2018 06:43 #37 by Frank
Frank replied the topic: Dana 70
It worries me whenever I open my rear diff too, but from US forums and mechanics I talk too they all say its normal.
these photos are of mine from 5 days ago (bottom image), and 5 years ago (top image).

Frank & Christine Thomas
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Last Edit: 09 Apr 2018 06:43 by Frank. Reason: clarification

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09 Apr 2018 13:29 #38 by OKA in Africa
OKA in Africa replied the topic: Dana 70
Thanks for your feedback. I do experience filing/glitter as well and think it is normal if it is not excessive.
My main concern with getting the original magnet ring is to have it solidly fixed in the cover housing. Although a piece of magnet will stick to the metal housing I do not want to imagine what happens when it gets loose (or moving around from vibration/shocks) and into the gears while driving.
You would not be concerned about this?

Thank you and best regards

OKA #327 in Africa
www.oka4wd.com/forum/members-vehicles-pu...47-oka-327-in-africa

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09 Apr 2018 15:28 #39 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Dana 70
i can't remember how the clip works so you might be able to stick any magnet in there and it will hold but maybe you would be best to get the right one, although others who are experienced seem to differ... you could use something like this as the plug, the oil splashes around so much i'm sure it will do it's job (check the size):

if in doubt go with your own opinion, although i don't think a crunched magnet would do much damage other than add to the filings. cheers, alister

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10 Apr 2018 08:30 - 10 Apr 2018 08:44 #40 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Dana 70

Alister McBride wrote: if in doubt go with your own opinion, although i don't think a crunched magnet would do much damage other than add to the filings. cheers, alister

Alister, a crunched magnet could release magnetised particles which could stick to the gear teeth. Best to avoid one.

Fitting a s separate magnetic drain plug would seem to be the best solution. I’m sure it’s been done.

Here’s a weld-in drain plug.

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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Last Edit: 10 Apr 2018 08:44 by dandjcr.

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