5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine

More
22 Apr 2014 18:40 - 22 Apr 2014 18:42 #1 by SolidSnake
SolidSnake created the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine




Its a 2004 built engine, has been reconditioned by its previous owner at some stage and is about at half life, was replaced because previous owner got a very good deal on a large amount of new Cummins 6BTs.

Its an industrial engine with a generator injection pump, to use it for an automotive purpose it would need an automotive injector pump, injectors, injector lines and an automotive sump.

It has a Holset HX35 turbo fitted to it like pictured.

Selling due to vehicle being sold that it was planned to go into.

PM me on the forum if you are interested.

Looking for $3000 ONO.

Engine located about 70km out of Melbourne, Victoria.
Last Edit: 22 Apr 2014 18:42 by SolidSnake.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Jun 2014 19:05 #2 by SolidSnake
SolidSnake replied the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine
Negotiable on price guys :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
16 Jun 2014 19:10 #3 by Joseph Baz
Joseph Baz replied the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine
Are you sure this is a 2004 6BT?
Cheers,Joe

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
23 Jun 2014 22:39 - 23 Jun 2014 22:41 #4 by SolidSnake
SolidSnake replied the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine
Yeah its a generator variant with front geartrain, its a 12V 6BT.

If you change injection pump, injectors, injector lines and sump you can convert it to an automotive engine which was what my plans were, but I sold the vehicle it was intended to go in which is why its advertised cheap.

The automotive version of the 6BT in the Dodge Ram changed in 1998 to the 24 valve head and different rocker cover/electronic injection which is what you might be thinking of.
Last Edit: 23 Jun 2014 22:41 by SolidSnake.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Peter and Sandra OKA 374
  • Peter and Sandra OKA 374's Avatar
  • Away
More
24 Jun 2014 06:17 - 24 Jun 2014 06:47 #5 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine
Same engines, prob from same source on ebay for a quite a bit cheaper here .
You also need to change quite a few more things than you have stated too, I know I've done it.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.
Last Edit: 24 Jun 2014 06:47 by dandjcr. Reason: Fixed the ebay URL
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rick Whitworth

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
24 Jun 2014 10:02 - 24 Jun 2014 10:10 #6 by SolidSnake
SolidSnake replied the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine

Peter and Sandra James OKA 374 wrote: Same engines, prob from same source on ebay for a quite a bit cheaper here .
You also need to change quite a few more things than you have stated too, I know I've done it.


Ah crap, I wasn't aware, what else do you need to change apart from what I listed as thats hat I was told in the Cummins forums? If I can't sell mine or get any offers I'll convert it myself.

Did you go P pump or VE pump?
Last Edit: 24 Jun 2014 10:10 by SolidSnake.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Peter and Sandra OKA 374
  • Peter and Sandra OKA 374's Avatar
  • Away
More
24 Jun 2014 14:59 #7 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine
VE pump, inj lines, associated brackets and plumbing, timing gear for pump, hydraulic pump and drive gear for brakes and steering, all the drive stuff on the front, water pump ok but you need everything else like alternator, aircon compressor, harmonic balancer, belt tensioner and all the bracketry to suit. Sump and oil pickup, rocker cover with oil filler, reroute the piping between turbo and intake, swap 24v sensors for 12v ones, starter motor, fand drive mount, clutch and fan, oil filter housing and turbo oil feed. Then there is the cooling system connections, thermostat housing that heads in the correct direction, fuel filtration and fuel line plumbing.
The jury is still out on the camshaft, been told it will both be ok and not ok so need to try it and see.
Then of course you have to adapt it to the Oka and your driveline of choice ;-)))

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
24 Jun 2014 15:09 - 24 Jun 2014 15:10 #8 by SolidSnake
SolidSnake replied the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine
Ah yes, thanks much for that :)

I got a quote from AG Diesel, they say that they can convert that Stanadyne DB4 injection pump to an automotive variation for around $1000 in cost, so that will solve the problem with the injection pump, injectors, lines, timing gear, etc :)

I've been told that camshaft isn't an issue unless you start trying to turn 500hp+ out of the thing which you wouldn't be able to do on a VE pump anyway.
Last Edit: 24 Jun 2014 15:10 by SolidSnake.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Peter and Sandra OKA 374
  • Peter and Sandra OKA 374's Avatar
  • Away
More
24 Jun 2014 15:24 #9 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine
VE pump built for 240hp/3000 rpm and all associated bits came in at just under $1k. The Stanadyne is easily modded to work also, just needs a new top and different governor, don't even need to pull it off but apparently can't get the hp out of it.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.
The following user(s) said Thank You: SolidSnake

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Oct 2016 19:02 #10 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine
Peter,

Who did you get your pump from?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Peter and Sandra OKA 374
  • Peter and Sandra OKA 374's Avatar
  • Away
More
17 Oct 2016 11:15 #11 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine
Lobo I'm away at the moment, I've not got the paperwork with me but ask Rob as he got his from the same place.
Peter

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Oct 2016 17:16 #12 by Joseph Baz
Joseph Baz replied the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine
After doing some comparisons between stationary and road going 4BT and 6BT this are the results
Camshafts are the same on both models(road and stationary 4BT and 6BT)
Fuel pump settings on both pumps (line and rotary) are different for road use and Stationary but can be used for either ,the stationary will not react efficiently to the gradual engine loading as the governor is set to a much narrower power band
Both pumps can be re calibrated for road use not just the P pump the difference being the balance weights in the governor
fuel pump timing gears are not interchangeable between rotary and line pumps.
this are the basic internals the rest of the accessories are only to accommodate space requirements for specific vehicle fitment
Hope this will be of some help
Cheers,Joe

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Oct 2016 17:49 #13 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine
Not all stationary motors are the same as well. Depends on the applications.

Gensets have to run at a constant RPM no matter what the load is, this is because the generator needs to maintain 50hz frequency. So they run a pump to suit, a lot of times in Oz they are Standadynes.

Pump motors and other applications may have a very similar pump. I have just brought a VE Pump for my 6BTA that was on a stationary motor. However it has the AFC, but no KSB. KSB not really needed anyway.

Also not all Genset and Stationary Engines are the same configuration. For example, a lot of People have brought EX Vic rail Genset engines. These require the most to convert. I brought a Genset engine, however its halve way between Vic Rail spec and Road Spec. It has the right sump etc. But still needs a Injector Pump, Injector lines etc etc.

Then when you convert the engine, you need to decide what options etc you need......

I am thinking about running electric fans and will not need the fan hub at all ( maybe ).

As others have said, if you come across an Genset engine etc, then getting parts of Gen 1 or 2 Dodge 12V Cummins are the best source to cover things over.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Oct 2016 18:28 #14 by Joseph Baz
Joseph Baz replied the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine
Lobo,whether you run a pump or a gen set the governing fuel band is within 200 rpm either side of the required optimum,when you have a genset the engine will rev up to the required RPM and that will be the optimum rev range as the engine is not required to provide maximum hp before the governed range that is the main difference,the governor weights are set for that rev range and the fuel to air ratio is not constant during the rev range is not until it gets to the set RPM range that the fuel/air mixture it's at it's best and a road going engine is expected to maintain the fuel/air ratio all along the rpm band to governed fuel cut off....does that makes sense (I'm translating Spanish to English in my head )
Cheers,Joe

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Oct 2016 19:00 #15 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: 5.9L Cummins 6BT 12V - 2004 build engine
I think so Joe.....

Injector pumps are still a mystery to me.

I was reluctant to buy the Pump that I just brought as it was for a Water Pump or such. But speaking to Diesel Injector people and a few others and I was told it would be OK. Top Revs wouldn't match existing pump, but apparently you can crank it up a little.

Both pumps have a AFC and new pump has apparently Euro 2 head that will flow more than existing pump. Time will tell if it works or not I guess.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Nov 2016 15:11 #16 by oztrax
oztrax replied the topic: P7100 Injector Pump
You blokes have done a fair bit of research on 6BT pumps.

I'm only just getting into seeing if this 6BT at work is Ok.



Here is the quick serve details "data plate"




This is quick serve data for that pump and engine combo.

It says the governor break rpm is 2575, not completely sure but that sound ok ?
Also rated at 200 HP for 2600 rpm, that should work for OKA ?




Graphic of the pump, model I have.
It's been very hard finding detailed info on pump differences.
The data plate on my engine says " fuel rate at rated HP : 91 mm (cubed)/st"

Can't find any "gutsy" detailed data to,research this stuff.
My Bosch model number for pump is : 0402066704

Cummins model number : 3927539. Or 3935785

I,realise a diesel shop could provide this info, but I really want to get my head around it myself.

Have you guys got any good links for Bosch applications etc


OZ
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Peter and Sandra OKA 374
  • Peter and Sandra OKA 374's Avatar
  • Away
More
14 Nov 2016 17:02 #17 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: P7100 Injector Pump
Oz most of the industrial 6bt's we have used came from gensets and had rotary IP's, most had a Stanadyne, some had a CAV but those IP's were not easily reconfigurable for vehicle use. Sitting at a governed RPM is very different to vehicle use.
As to whether the P pump on your engine is reconfigurable for vehicle use you would have to talk to a diesel expert who sets these pumps up.
We initially had the same questions with the rotary pumps and it wasn't until we went to a place that builds/rebuilds and services the IP's to ask if they could be used and exactly what differences there were before we could work out what to do.
It basically worked out that timing advance, governor setup and in some cases the whole inside of the IP was different so while yes it could be done it wasn't worthwhile, better to have a new pump fitted that was set up for the intended use.
Cummins themselves had no idea as they don't touch the IP's at all, they referred me to a diesel place and I also asked the same question of a few diesel places to reach an initial decision.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Nov 2016 18:30 #18 by oztrax
oztrax replied the topic: P7100 Injector Pump
Thanks Pete and Joe

Figured as much,
The P7100 is used also on the Dodge Ram with the 6BT cummins.


This model for the 94 to 98 models
Pretty well identical externally, following what Joe said, I will look into governor settings.
The pump I have is 8% range.

This model for the Dodge uses an electrical control, which seems to bolt on where the AFC module goes.


Found a power curve for the 210 HP marine cummins



Snakes (the author of this thread) was alluding to,Dodge using the pump he had,
This clears up some of the questions for auto,use.

Assuming timing gear is OK to use, a Dodge Ram P7100 can be bought recon for around $800
Availability in the U.S. And Asia is good.

OZ
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Nov 2016 18:44 #19 by oztrax
oztrax replied the topic: P7100 Injector Pump
Attached wrong photo last post:

The Dodge electric control below



I'm going to,research the Dodge Ram pump settings for,comparison
And to educate myself a bit.
Lots of stuff on the net for adjusting /tweaking the P7100.

Joe is right, the 8% governor authority is really only 200 rpm.
Lobo,discussed this as well.

Anyway I don't mind learning a bit about these pumps
And here's why:



The old Achilles' tendon repair onto heel bone
Due to a "Haglunds deformity" , basically a bump of bone that grows on your heel.
They sawed the bump off apparently, then reattached the tendon with screws.

Oh well 10 more weeks to go
Reckon I can weld my trailer from a wheelchair ?

OZ
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Nov 2016 21:37 #20 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: P7100 Injector Pump
Bugger last picture was a shock.......

The pump you have is no good.

Borrowed from another site.......

The automotive (RQV I think) governor governs the highest RPM you can run. The ag (RSV) governor keeps the engine at a steady RPM. Think Truck vs Tractor. Truck runs at variable speed all day shifting and pulling hills, but doesnt want to go over say 2100-2200 RPM. Tractor stays at the same speed all day and under normal circumstances usually never gets over 2000 RPM. But the operator would be annoyed having to readjust the throttle for hills and different load conditions in the soil. Thats the way my dad explains it anyway.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Powered by Kunena Forum