All-care-no-responsibilty advice needed

More
31 Oct 2012 21:32 #1 by dandjcr
dandjcr created the topic: All-care-no-responsibilty advice needed
Forum Home > OKA Maintenance > All-care-no-responsibilty advice needed.

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
Considering scrapping the existing camper box and removing the dualcab and tray and replacing it with a basic square box high enough to walk around in - a bit like Peter's but without the cab-over sleeping section.
Intend having a fold-down bit on the back wall that hinges out down flat behind the vehicle to contain a king-size bed. Yes, a bad move according to some, but I'm confident that I can manage any dust and waterproofing issues, and it does just about doubles the effective area and satisfies our criteria of no climbing up into bed, at least queen-size bed and able to be used at the same time as the living area is in use - and no making the bed up every night. Not too much different from the trayon except that the lid swings through 90 degrees instead of 180, and it swings out backwards intead of sideways.

Will be building the box and most of the insides out of sandwich panel from Vanglass and one expert I consulted (who will remain nameless just in case) suggested I just glue the floor panel direct to the chassis with a thick (and expensive ) bed of Sikaflex and do without messing around with a separate subframe. After all, the chassis is supposed to be rigid and the sikaflex will provide just as much movement as the 12 rubber mountings used to hold the bus body down.
If I do go that way (and any comment would be appreciated) I will have to weld some outriggers out from the chassis and weld a perimeter beam to them a little bit like vanglass do here vanglass.homestead.com/Caravan.html


I'm thinking of perhaps 50mm fairly light walled box section as the outriggers with maybe the same as a perimeter beam. Once the panel is glued in place, nothing is going to bend - hopefully - because the panel is very rigid.

Question is - these outriggers would be just butted onto the outside face of the chassis and welded on so are there any restrictions or constraints regarding welding extra stuff to the chassis rails. Depending on what the local welder thinks, I would probably add some small gussets to strengthen the join to the chassis. I'm also aware that long welds at right angles to the beam aren't a good idea, especially on or near the upper or lower face of the beam.

I suspect others have done plenty of similar additions to hang fuel and water tanks off and this is a similar application. Not T2 (T1???) steel so no restrictions there.
Any comments or advice (apart from that already received from my nameless consultant expert)
--
Tony

picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379

July 4, 2011 at 6:05 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
PS - one thing that might be of interest in that link to the caravan build is the photo of the custom water tanks - apparently built out of the same sandwich panel. Given that they have offcuts of 1500mm x 630mm x 25mm for around $15, might be a cheap way to build a water tank 60cm cube gives a 200L tank
--
Tony

picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379

July 4, 2011 at 6:21 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Dandj
Member
Posts: 367
Tony a quick ACNR reply. Sounds like a fun project but a few immediate concerns I would have:
The chassis will twist and flex so gluing a rigid box directly to it may not be reliable. There will need to be some accommodation for this flexing in the mechanical design, hence the subframe and rubber mounts of the Oka body parts.
A 200L tank will contain 200kg of water. That's a lot of weight for a glued box design. Also a lot of eggs in one basket. Several small tanks would be better, with framed edges.
You'd be wise to get an engineers approval for any serious chassis welding, in fact it might be mandatory.
Regards,
--
David and Janet Ribbans, Oka 148

July 4, 2011 at 7:29 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
Yes, 100 litres is more than enough in a single tank. At the moment I have 4 x 85 litre tanks jammed between the camper box and the tray and that seems to be more water than we really need.
Just used that size (200L) to indicate that the whole water supply would easily fit in half of one side of a normal dinette setting.
One thought to avoid hanging water tanks on or under the chassis was to build the dinette floor area up say 150mm and use the space underneath for water tanks, plus possible full-width storage for sand mats and high lift jack, neither of which will have a convenient storage spot in the new rig. Still planning and getting good ideas from members.

I do need to get the CofG back further than it is now because there is too much weight on the front.

Be interesting to see how much flex those standard OKA mounts actually allow - and how much actual twist a standard .chassis has when driven up onto ramps so that one wheel lifts off the ground. I know that the Fuzo chassis flexes like mad which is why they must use torsion-free mounts and take a lot of care to ameliorate the resulting point loadings, but one of the "selling points" of the OKA is that it has a rigid chassis that doesn't flex. I was working on the basis that gluing the box to the chassis (using a thick bed of flexible adhesive) would be the ultimate uniform loading for the chassis
Peter & Margaret has his shell made of the same composite panel and with so many mounts (12 or 14??) having very limited flexibility, maybe there is not much relative flex possible between chassis and his subframe (which in itself has no flex because it is firmly glued to a very rigid box)
If he did have flex then I would have thought some of the simple glued joints on inside furniture would have popped by now, especially when you look at some of his videos eg the one through the deep water and coming down the rocky road.

Engineers?? Yes, they take all the fun out of innovation don't they.
Last one I had to use for the bus conversion in NSW had first to be educated in the RTA rules and regulations - and he was RTA accredited.
--
Tony

picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379

July 4, 2011 at 12:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Peter 334
Member
Posts: 118
Many years ago i spent time building portable atco huts for a buisness close to home and sandwich panel was used to construct them , we used caravan exstrusion for the corners the panels pressed into them rivets to surcure it all together .The chassie was 6"x2" box ,joice were 2"x2" with a chanel at bottom to place the walls in all welded together then panels were riverted ,the problem we had was in transport the buildings on and of trucks tend to break the riverts and you had to keep and eye on it all the time it might be different to what you are doing but as vehical traveling on rough roads it could shake to bits as there was a lot of movement in the buildings, me i would not be fixing it straight to the chassie that just my experiance in the atco hut buisness
July 4, 2011 at 3:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Peter & Sandra James Oka 374
Member
Posts: 412
Tony. you might want to have a look at this page, Julian is a friend of Peter's too.
www.epicycles.com/ ; click on the link to "convert a canter, the build project.
Might be good to talk to Peter too as he helped Julian build the chassis mounting frame which the Oka wouldn't need.
Peter
--
Oka 374 LT Van

July 4, 2011 at 5:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Paul Scherek
Member
Posts: 136
Hi Tony,
Just a quick reply because I am on the road heading up to see Vanglass (and also Australian Composites in Bellingen) for a project VERY similar to yours. The only real difference is that my folds at the back form a floor and roof for a mosquito-proof outdoor living area, with the bed fixed at the front.
I also considered not having a chassis, but decided that if there were any problems, it would render pretty much the whole project a loss. Also I felt it could be difficult to fill the fuel tanks, but I am aiming at 2100 width - less should not be such a problem. I also considered that the wheels on full bump would hit the floor, and raised sections where the wheels are didn't fit my preferred layout.
So I have welded up a chassis from 75 x 50 x 4 duragal, and will glue the composite panels onto that. It does weigh 200 kgs, but that weight is down low. The composites will weigh about 300 kgs, so weight will still be reasonable with a reasonably low c of g.
For water I had made by Atlas Tanks a tank that sits right at the back tucked between the camper chassis rails. It angles down so that it won't affect the departure angle. It holds about 140 litres. There is also a 40 litre grey water tank and another water tank that sits next to the gearbox,about 40 litres.
I have decided on a fixed roof, mainly so that the bathroom can be completely sealed off from the living area. I don't care what they say, cassette toilets spend a lot of their time smelling pretty bad!
If you are interested, when I get home next week i could send you photos of the chassis and the Atlas tanks - they did a pretty good job for about $700.
Now I just need to get it finished in time for the big Simpson - CSR trip next year!!

Cheers,

Paul


July 4, 2011 at 6:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Peter & Sandra James Oka 374
Member
Posts: 412
We just came through Bellingen this afternoon on our way home from the first short trip after fitting out the camper on the back of the Oka.
All going well and only about a dozen things to fix/modify before we head off into the Great Victoria Desert next month.
Paul we're camped up just south of Macksville for the night, heading down to Taree and then across to Gloucester and home to Dungog tomorrow.

--
Oka 374 LT Van

July 4, 2011 at 7:33 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Paul Scherek
Member
Posts: 136
Drat!! We have just missed you, we are in Armidale tonight, heading down to Bellingen tomorrow. Shame, it would have been good to meet up.

Cheers,

Paul
July 4, 2011 at 8:02 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cando
Member
Posts: 199
Tony, sounds like the build we'd like to have ready for the CSR but doesn't look like we'll have the time.So, if you're interested in selling your cab/ tray set up let us know. Re the welding to the chassis I'd be careful, maybe bolt brackets to the chassis to hold the frame? Good luck
--
Happy trails

Cando and Bron XLT 112



July 4, 2011 at 9:17 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
Peter & Sandra James Oka 374 at July 4, 2011 at 5:30 PM
Tony. you might want to have a look at this page, Julian is a friend of Peter's too.
www.epicycles.com/ ; click on the link to "convert a canter, the build project.
Might be good to talk to Peter too as he helped Julian build the chassis mounting frame which the Oka wouldn't need.
Peter
Thanks Peter. I've picked both lots of brains fairly thoroughly and they have both given me their "what I would do if I hd the chance to do it over" modifications as well.
I'll be going for as little framing as possible, especially since there is no need for a three point torsion-free frame and Julian reckons his frame is way over the top because of engineers requirements. Peter has an internal frame and he said next time that would be left out.

Reason for doing without any frame is to keep the floor level as low as possible so I can keep overall height down while still giving me a couple of inches head clearance inside.. I'll have a good look at the chassis and see if something can be bolted on the side rather than welding, but given there is already a lot of stuff welded to the chassis, I'm not sure that a little bit more would make too much difference.
Still thinking.
--
Tony

picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379

July 5, 2011 at 12:19 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539

>>If you are interested, when I get home next week i could send you photos of the chassis and the Atlas tanks - they did a pretty good job for about $700.
Now I just need to get it finished in time for the big Simpson - CSR trip next year!! <<

Pictures would be good. Thanks.

Yes, I'm going to be a busy boy as well since I'm scrapping a perfectly good rig and starting from scratch to get it ready for the CSR grand tour beginning in may.
At least the composite panels make for quick building so at the very worst, we might end up going with just the bare bones box without all the fancy trimmings. At least I already have a lot of the gear - electrical, plumbing, webasto cooktop and hydronics so I don't have to sit in the thinker pose for hours making sure what i do it correct the first time.
main thing is to add to my skills by studyingt fibreglassing 101 off the internet while we are still in Alaska so I will be raring to go as soon as I get back. First job will be to remove the crew cab and tray and head to Queensland to pick up the pack of panels.

The current rig will be for sale. Crew cab is minus the seats, but will have the back window with it. Couple - well, about 10 actually - extra bolt holes in the floor and the roof has been painted with solar reflective paint. No rust anywhere. Going cheap.
Tray has part of the front frame cut off (just the curved tube at the top, but that can be welded back on - and no gates. Also going cheap.
The camper box itself will be pretty much intact except that the webasto cooker and the sink and the radio will be removed - and the waeco fridge that is bolted to the floor in the corner won't be there either, but otherwise will be usable. Tanks fit between the tray and the camper and would just need an external pump and sink to get it fully functional. Photos available. Oh, also comes with the 4 jacking legs.
Available around mid december
--
Tony

picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379

July 5, 2011 at 12:40 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
Paul, agree about the cassette toilet, but haven't found the smell to be a problem even though we never use chemicals - because it is usually emptied every day. I figure digging one hole and pouring a slurry into it and recovering has got to be better than digging two or more individual holes with the normal problem of animals digging it up and scattering toilet paper. Besides, it is sooooo much more comfortable on a freezing cold night.
My shower toilet will have walls, but probably just a curtain across the doorway to save a bit of weight and complexity.

Mine will also be over 2m wide. somewhere half way between standard width and whatever Peter's is..

If possible, I would like to get the tanks except grey inside with all the water pipes to save freezing problems and avoid cluttering up the underbody space.
--
Tony

picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379

July 5, 2011 at 12:49 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Peter_n_Margaret
Member
Posts: 198
The body on OKA196 is 2160mm wide outside. The sandwich panel is 20mm, so it is 2120mm inside.
"Next time" I would go for thicker panels (were not common when I built) for better subzero insulation (although it is pretty good as is) and probably about the same external width.
--
Cheers Peter, OKA196 Motorhome. www.oka4wd.com/xt196.htm



July 5, 2011 at 7:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Cando
Member
Posts: 199 Tony, I'd be interested in ur set up as we are already behind in our build due to work commitments. Can u send some pics and cost? This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or just PM me
--
Happy trails

Cando and Bron XLT 112



July 5, 2011 at 10:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
Cando at July 5, 2011 at 10:20 PM
Tony, I'd be interested in ur set up as we are already behind in our build due to work commitments. Can u send some pics and cost? This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or just PM me
OK. Didn't intend to sell the bits and pieces this early, but I have had a couple of enquiries so I'll put a package of info together and send it out.

I assume you know I won't be getting back to Oz until middle of November to early December.
OKA is sitting home in the back yard at Bulahdelah and the neighbor has the key so that part won't be a problem and when I get back, I will organise a local to lift the stuff off the chassis and then if someone does buy it, we can reverse the process onto their chassis if convenient.

Travelling at the moment so might be tomorrow when I get the info organised.
--
Tony

picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379

July 6, 2011 at 4:12 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Cando
Member
Posts: 199 Cheers tony, this may work out well for both of us. See you at the CSR
--
Happy trails

Cando and Bron XLT 112



July 6, 2011 at 5:31 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jim-Lindy
Member
Posts: 3
Hi Tony
Jim and I are currently having our newly purchased oka dual cab done up so we can put our Travelander slipon on it. The advantage of the slip on is you can drive out from under it and leave it behind in the camp site or carport or workshop if the worst happens. This frees up the tray for other uses. You can by the base and do it up yourself or it comes fully kitted with kitchen running hot an cold water and even a shower. I won't go into it further as you can look up the Travelander website yourself and see what it has. The thing we love most about it is it opens and closes with remote control so that within two minutes of parking up you can be sitting in your campsite relaxing with a tinnie. If you look it up and are interested they usually have displays at the 4wd and camping shows around Australia. Its probably on their websit as well.
Regards
Jim and Lindy OKA xt 157
--


July 6, 2011 at 6:50 PM

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Powered by Kunena Forum