Perth to Alice Jan 2018

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14 Nov 2017 07:39 #21 by mort
mort replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
Yep Dave is right in fact it is usually when you can get the hottest days try March.
Martyn

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14 Nov 2017 15:34 #22 by T-Rex 146
T-Rex 146 replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
We have done the Central highway heaps of times and not had an issue, driving a Hilux ute with dirt bike on the back plus a heap of gear and towing a loaded cub Drover Spacematic camper trailer and never had a problem. Usually at the end of May on the way to the Finke Desert race in Alice. The only poor bit of road is between Uluru and Docker River. But one year we went and even that had actually been graded. That is the time of year when all the graders are out, early June. We always headed from Esperance , out the Eyre Highway to Wirrula, through to Kingoonya, Coober Pedy and through to Alice Springs. Only iffy bit is if it rains, the track around Lake Everard gets rather muddy and slippery. Though we never had that problem, friends who went through a day later than us and met up at Camel Tanks and their vehicle and camper were quite muddy. Camel Tanks was always a camp spot for us as it has big water tanks with a large roof structure to catch the rain, and nice big set of red sandunes, a lake, which we only saw water in once, and a huge amount of birdlife. We always went home on the Great Central Highway, one year we counted 9 graders on it, and it was like a highway!

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13 Mar 2018 08:35 #23 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
Does anyone have the belt sizes for the AC and alternator handy?

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13 Mar 2018 09:26 - 13 Mar 2018 09:31 #24 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
Belt Part Nos.

Air con 9425 13A1080
Alternator 9520 13A1320

Might vary depending on pulley size, check the part number on the belt if you can find it. The 13A... is the size info (width/length in mm), the 9425 etc is the manufacturers code.

Also see this post

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Last Edit: 13 Mar 2018 09:31 by dandjcr.
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14 Mar 2018 04:51 #25 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
As David said it is best to check the belts actually fitted, I did the same as you and bought a spare pair, they only ever fitted everyone elses, not my Perky. Due to strengthened/modded aircon mounts, pulley changes and alternator changes many are different it seems.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

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14 Mar 2018 05:14 - 14 Mar 2018 05:27 #26 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
Belts are sometimes numbered like "A76" (imperial code) rather than the 13A... metric code.

If you are in any doubt (or need special sizes, such as for a pedestal drill), industrial belt suppliers have measuring machines to determine the exact length when tensioned.

A cm out either way can make the difference between being too tight to fit over the pulley or too loose to tighten.

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Last Edit: 14 Mar 2018 05:27 by dandjcr.
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16 Mar 2018 12:58 - 16 Mar 2018 13:10 #27 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
AC was fine after an adjustment at lake Ballard.
The spot light LED bar was brilliant until last night at Giles, then I checked the fuse and the connector was 1/2 melted.
The other head lights were still working great, but the big light bar is at a whole other level.

Now I would appreciate inner and outer front wheel bearing part numbers, as it is totally collapsed... however it is "lucky" that it gave it up 500M from the Yulara parking lot.
Or advise as this is what I think it is:

Dana 60 Front Wheel Bearing Kit
-Inner Bearing- Timken 387A
-Inner Race- Timken 382A
-Outer Bearing- Timken LM104949
-Outer Race- Timken LM104911
Last Edit: 16 Mar 2018 13:10 by Holmz.

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16 Mar 2018 13:18 #28 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
Holmz, these are the bearing part numbers and any larger bearing supplier should be able to supply them or more likely their equivalents. Places in AliceSprings/Katherine would probably have them or can get them.

Front​
Inner cup​382A
​Inner cone​387A

​Outer cup ​LM 104911
​Outer cone ​LM 104949

Rear​ (for reference)
Inner cup ​45220
​Inner cone​ 45291

​Outer cup​ LM 104911
​Outer cone​ LM 104949

If you have the original tabbed bearing lock washer you can reuse them as there will be several unused tabs. They are a fiddle to remove and replace, and you'll also need a 2 1/2 inch 6 point socket to remove the lock nuts.

BTW, it might just be that the lock nut has come loose which might resemble a "collapsed" bearing.

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16 Mar 2018 15:10 #29 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
Thanks David.
The bearings are new, but the only Allen key I do not have is the 9/64 to get the Warn locking hubs off, so the mrs is sending that and a bearing set.
(And now going back to get another in case the plane from Alice is cancelled, then I'll rent a car and fetch it on the morrow.)

I have na extra Stage-8 locking set, so I guess I am sorted if it is a nut problem, other than the threads.

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16 Mar 2018 16:27 #30 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018

Holmz wrote: but the only Allen key I do not have is the 9/64 to get the Warn locking hubs off, so the mrs is sending that and a bearing set.


You might be able to use a Torx head driver to remove the locking hubs. I've used a slightly oversized Torx driver and tapped it into the Allen key head to remove them.

If you have Stage 8 locknuts do you have a 4 pronged box spanner to remove the nut?

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16 Mar 2018 17:13 #31 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
Yes sir - I do have the tool for the stage-8 nut.

No torx either, and SFA for tool availability here.
Lobo (who use to be on here) had warned me about the local mechanic, and google had a bunch of horror stories.
A stripped out Allen would be bugger, so I will await the plane on the morrow.

It seems more conceptually manageable with a decent coffee, and some beer, and soon some pizza.
I will likely be swearing tomorrow in the heat, but am living in the moment NOW ;)

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17 Mar 2018 21:36 - 17 Mar 2018 21:40 #32 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
Well the vehicle is buggered enough to leave here for a few days awaiting parts.
Does anyone have an extra stage-8 lock nut setup I could either purchase or replace with a new unit?
(I am uncertain about getting the locking tabs working on a standard setup, as I am not sure how to coax them towards me in the deep recess of the front hub.
(I believe have sourced a spindle, which has prevented me from using the airfrieghted in bearings which arrived from Alice at ~3PM - using the spare double nut and tab setup that is standard)
And I have been making a list of parts and tools required.

The Mrs is driving to "the rock" to collect me in the morning (bless her soul). And parts should be able to arrive on Tuesday or Wednesday if they go out on Monday.

The hotel staff said that I can leave the vehicle in the hotel car park, with the front on jacks (chassis on the bull bar, and bottle jack under the axel)... (so a blessing to them too)

A few people have given me some advise over the phone, so I am grateful for their assistance in working through the thoughts.
Last Edit: 17 Mar 2018 21:40 by Holmz.

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18 Mar 2018 04:54 #33 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
Re aircon belts, I just looked at mine and my spare and they are actually 13A1090, not 1080.

Goes to show how much difference a cm can make. Probably either could be used, depends on how much adjustment range you have.

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18 Mar 2018 05:24 - 18 Mar 2018 05:33 #34 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018

Holmz wrote: Does anyone have an extra stage-8 lock nut setup I could either purchase or replace with a new unit?
(I am uncertain about getting the locking tabs working on a standard setup, as I am not sure how to coax them towards me in the deep recess of the front hub.


Holmz, I know how you feel, we were stuck in Eucla for 4 days with a broken starter motor.

To reuse the tabbed lock washers, when removing them, use a blunt screwdriver and hammer to push/tap back the tab(s) facing you until you can undo the nut. When reinstalling them, tap the tab(s) bent towards the bearing (be careful you don't slip and damage the bearing behind). You only need one or 2 in each direction.

You'll need a 90º bent screwdriver or similar to pull back those facing you when replacing them which is tricky. A tip Robin gave me was to bend a couple of tabs towards you to about 45º before installing the washer and nut. That makes them easier to start off, then twist a large screwdriver against the tab to complete the job.

Sorry I don't have a spare Stage 8 set. Do you have the instructions for installing them (I've attached some anyway)? You'll need some internal circlip pliers or similar (expanding outwards). Looks simple when all nice and clean, not so easy when covered in grease.

Take some photos before, during and after for reference.

David

File Attachment:

File Name: GoingNUTSo...nut2.pdf
File Size:424 KB

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Last Edit: 18 Mar 2018 05:33 by dandjcr.
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18 Mar 2018 06:32 - 18 Mar 2018 09:05 #35 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018

dandjcr wrote: ....
You'll need a 90º bent screwdriver or similar to pull back those facing you when replacing them which is tricky.
...
David

File Attachment:

File Name: GoingNUTSo...nut2.pdf
File Size:424 KB


Is there a photo of the modified screw driver?
I will need to make one of those on Monday or Tuesday.
But also found a place in Au with the stage-8 Dana 60 assemble, so I will call them on Monday.

I am pretty sure I had some problem with the stage-8 on the LHS front. Somewhere before Williams I had heard a loud bang and wasn't sure if I had kicked a rock into the chassis, and pulled over to have a look and a chin scratch.

Unfortunately I am leaning the lessons the hard way (experiencally).

Does anyone have thepart number for the rear seal?
I will need to see if they have that at the bearing shop, or if it needs to arrive in a airbag.
Last Edit: 18 Mar 2018 09:05 by Holmz.

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18 Mar 2018 09:19 - 18 Mar 2018 10:16 #36 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
If the Stage8 nuts are properly fitted they shouldn't ever come loose, but a failed bearing can cause damage.

Once the first nut is on (before you fit the tabbed washer), tighten the nut down to 50ft-lbs or thereabouts to seat the bearings and spin the hub a few times in each direction to remove any play. It should be stiff but smooth and stop when you stop turning it. Then back off the nut so the hub just spins a bit by itself (a couple of revs max, with no perceptible up-down movement when you rock the hub), then fit the tabbed washers and outer nut and bend the tabs. If you're fitting Stage 8 nuts, do the same thing with the pronged lock nut to seat the bearings before fitting the locking devices.

To get behind the tabs, I used a thin tent peg bent like a fish hook. If you put a similar bend on the other end you can use a screwdriver or bar to pull/lever it out a bit. There's not a lot of room inside but once the tab has started bending towards you, you can twist a large screwdriver between it and the inner surface of the hub to finish the bend. Try Robin's idea first, but not too much bend or you won't get the nut to tighten properly.



Once you back on the road, as I'm sure you will be soon, check the temperature of the hubs with your hand every 10-20km and compare front and rear hubs, but not after heavy braking as this can heat the hubs. If the hubs are all cool to slightly warm, all is OK. If any are hot compared to the others the bearings are too tight and you'll to repeat the whole process.

You've had a run of bad luck with your Oka but that doesn't mean the whole thing is a lemon. Everything can be fixed and most of us have been in your position at some time.

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Last Edit: 18 Mar 2018 10:16 by dandjcr.

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18 Mar 2018 09:47 - 18 Mar 2018 10:06 #37 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018

Holmz wrote: Does anyone have thepart number for the rear seal?
I will need to see if they have that at the bearing shop, or if it needs to arrive in a airbag.


Front Hub Seal

Size 2.750*3.875*0.500
Chicago Rawhide 27471 or 27452
National 415960

If dust/mud/water has got into the bearings it should definitely be changed. My seals were CR27452.

Replace the rear bearing before fitting a new seal as I'm not sure you can't insert the bearing cup (Item11) with the seal in place.




To remove the old seal, from the rear, puncture/collapse in the outer ring of the seal with a sharp screwdriver or similar and lever out, all mangled up, but don't damage the hub surface. When inserting a new seal, grease it first and use a block of wood across the seal and gently tap with a hammer it so it remains straight and level.



BTW, rear spindles are not replaceable, they are part of the axle, and rear hub seals are more important since the rear bearings run in diff oil, not grease.

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18 Mar 2018 17:45 #38 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018

dandjcr wrote:

Holmz wrote: Does anyone have thepart number for the rear seal?
I will need to see if they have that at the bearing shop, or if it needs to arrive in a airbag.


Front Hub Seal

Size 2.750*3.875*0.500
Chicago Rawhide 27471 or 27452
National 415960

If dust/mud/water has got into the bearings it should definitely be changed. My seals were CR27452.


No water or mud, if was all newly assembled, but looking at the YouTube videos, the bearing was not "PACKED". So I think it was too dry.
(Also I picked up some tubes of redline CV2 in Bibra lake, which was not the grease that was in there.)

dandjcr wrote:
Replace the rear bearing before fitting a new seal as I'm not sure you can't insert the bearing cup (Item11) with the seal in place.


To remove the old seal, from the rear, puncture/collapse in the outer ring of the seal with a sharp screwdriver or similar and lever out, all mangled up, but don't damage the hub surface. When inserting a new seal, grease it first and use a block of wood across the seal and gently tap with a hammer it so it remains straight and level.


I am bringing it to the fellow with a press.
If it was not ~ a km away, I would use a rock... but this fellow is has the proper stuff for pulling and pushing the races.
So I will:
1) clean it
2) bring to press man
3) Fetch seal
4) pound seal in with a 4x2 , or bring it to the press. man.
5) wrap in a trash bag

dandjcr wrote: ...
BTW, rear spindles are not replaceable, they are part of the axle, and rear hub seals are more important since the rear bearings run in diff oil, not grease.


Looked like oil was coming out of the RH rear... I am getting a funnel, but both rear hubs were ~54C, and the front RH was 41C.

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19 Mar 2018 13:05 #39 by Dean and Kaye Howells
Dean and Kaye Howells replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
Looked like oil was coming out of the RH rear... I am getting a funnel, but both rear hubs were ~54C, and the front RH was 41C

As David says rear 'spindles' are an integral part of the rear axle housing. Any wear in the rear seals will result in diff oil leaking and a little bit goes a long way in making a mess but a new seal is cheap and easy to fit and generally fixes the problem. If the sealing surface is too badly pitted or worn a 'speedy sleeve' can be fitted without much cost or effort to give a 'new' surface for the seal to run on. Another option if the seal surface is badly worn is to fit a different seal with the same ID and OD so that it runs on a different part of the hub. An example of this would be a Viton triple lipped seal as opposed to the original double lipped seal. I've sourced these through Paul Nott in the past for the front hubs but am unsure about their availability for the rear.

Your hub temperatures sound about right, the rear is always higher than the front, probably because they're lubricated by the diff oil which is heated from normal friction in the diff assembly. Hub temps on the sunny side of the vehicle will also be higher than on the shade side and can be quite noticeable to the touch.

Using a small funnel with a piece of tube to fill the rear diff is a bit fiddly and can be very messy. An easier method 'on the road' is to carry a Castrol 1 litre 'diff oil' container which comes with an integral pop out tube which allows diff oil to be replaced without mess and a lot easier than messing around with a funnel and tube. Normal diff oil is pretty common or garden variety 85W90 but needs to be Hypoid or EP or Differential spec'd. If you've got a rear LSD then oil should be Castrol LS90 or equivalent or be 'normal' 85W90 diff oil with an LSD additive such as Penrite Limslip. If you're unsure if the diff is LSD or not jack up both rear wheels and spin one wheel. If the opposite wheel spins in the same direction then you have a LSD, if it spins in the opposite direction to the wheel you're turning then you have an open diff :)

Deano

ps. the Perkins diesel engine is a lot different to your vertically opposed two stroke submarine engine :) :)

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19 Mar 2018 21:18 #40 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Perth to Alice Jan 2018
Yeah I know those engines differ...

I am running Redline 75w/90 in the diff (I think... 75w???).
And I heard overfilling the diff is not a bad idea.

I have some of the Redline CV2 for the bearings to try for the next go.

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