Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??

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26 Feb 2014 15:11 #1 by The Worb
The Worb created the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
Helpful Knowledge Required

I have purchased an ARB airlocker from ebay which I am told come from an OKA.(unknown if XT or LT)
All dimensions are right (carrier bearing size, width between bearings, etc.)

I removed my diff from 351 (LT) and have done a spring upgrade and anticipated putting
the airlocker in before putting the diff back under the springs, together with new bearings and seals.

I hit a hurdle today. Putting the ring gear on the airlocker and it is too big.
It has a 6 7/8" ID where the air locker is only 6 3/8" ID (bugger).

I realize the obvious that it doesn't fit and cannot be made to fit. But have I
anticipated or purchased something that is wrong.

OR when changing from an open DANA 70 diff to an airlocker is it fact that the pinion and ring gears need to be changed??

Thanks in advance for some feed back.

PS. I may have a rear diff set of gears in good condition for sale. 4.10 ratio and ring gear with 6 7/8" ID

Cheers Brian

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26 Feb 2014 16:12 #2 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
Sorry Worb but you have the wrong carrier... The OKA has a 4.88 ratio diff which fits on a 4.56 ratio and higher carrier, the 4.1 ratio fits on a 4.1 and lower carrier. They are different sizes to accommodate the different sized gears. Whoever sold you this centre claiming it was out of an OKA was most likely not telling the truth (or had an extremely rarely geared OKA!).

Sorry for the bad news!

Cheers, Alister

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26 Feb 2014 17:56 - 26 Feb 2014 18:05 #3 by The Worb
The Worb replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
Thanks Alister,

I will check the ratio again, but from what you say it does appear I have the wrong carrier,
I checked the ratio on the external tab of the diff cover and I was wrong. It is a 4.88 ratio.

Does this mean as you indicated that the airlocker I obtained is for a lower ratio diff??

When I did some homework on gar rings it did only gave the OD diameter of the ring gear.

I did get it quite cheap, but if it is wrong then any money spent is wasted.

Thanks Brian
Last Edit: 26 Feb 2014 18:05 by The Worb.

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26 Feb 2014 19:34 #4 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
The OD of the ring gear is the same - 10.5" for a D70 with any ratio.

I'm only assuming it's wrong from what you've said. I can't exactly remember but there will probably be a code on the air-locker, it will most likely be an 'RD' with two or three numbers after it which is the ARB code, you can then back reference it. If it doesn't, do some google-ing and find out the ring gear PCD for each ratio (and/or ID), then you'll know for sure.

If you got it cheap you should be able to sell it on again for not much loss, should be decent demand. Also, in future if you get another second hand one i'd change the O-Rings before installation, saves doing it later if someones done a lot of k's...

Good luck!

Cheers, alister

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27 Feb 2014 05:05 - 27 Feb 2014 05:08 #5 by The Worb
The Worb replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
Thanks again Alister,

Yep it all appears I have been misinformed when purchasing the airlocker.
It had supposedly been removed from an OKA but don'e know which one and I
don't see the seller listed in the OKA details.

This one came with no 'O' rings so I had already changed them ready. Also didn't
have a solenoid but thankfully I didn't outlay on a new one.

It is an ARB with code 95 07 213. but it is obviously a 4.10 down ring gear.

My ring gear measures 10.5" OD and 6 7/8" ID. which would be a 4.5? up requirement.

I will be in touch with OKA people and see what I can obtain.

Yep this one will go on ebay and gumtree and I see if I can recoup some of my outlay.

Oh well you win some and lose some. I'll just have to spend some more money now.

Cheers and Thanks again Brian
Last Edit: 27 Feb 2014 05:08 by The Worb.

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27 Feb 2014 06:14 - 27 Feb 2014 08:15 #6 by outyonda
outyonda replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
RD172 is the ARB air locker part no on the box I have in the shed.

*** this is a 32 spline locker ***

OKAs 091, 093, 094, 113, 346x6 & 405
Last Edit: 27 Feb 2014 08:15 by outyonda.

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27 Feb 2014 07:34 #7 by Joseph Baz
Joseph Baz replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
The 35spine part no for 4.88 ratio is RD 65, , don't re use the crown wheel bolts
Cheers Joe

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27 Feb 2014 11:47 #8 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
I've just uploaded an ARB Installation Guide for the RD65 air locker to our Tech Docs library.

You can open/download it here .

Joe, from a practical perspective, how difficult is it to install an air locker?

The installation guide talks about backlash and dial gauges etc but if the diff was set up and working OK before installation, is all that really necessary?

Obviously a rear diff is a critical component so it needs to be installed correctly.

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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27 Feb 2014 14:11 #9 by The Worb
The Worb replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
Thanks everyone,

It has become evident that I have been misinformed regarding the air locker centre I have bought.
It seems it is for a Dana 70, but for a 4.10 down ratio and not the 4.56 up ratio, which makes it too small.

I have made contact with Paul Nott today and will be completing my diff upgrade with
a power lok centre and not an air locker.

People have differing opinion but this is the way I have decided to go.

I now have a Dana 70 4.10 down ARB air locker centre for sale. (just thought I would chuck that in)

Cheers and thanks for your help. Beware what you buy un-inspected.

OH WELL one persons loss is another persons gain!!! Brian

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27 Feb 2014 16:01 #10 by Dean and Kaye Howells
Dean and Kaye Howells replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
IMO fate has conspired to lead you to the better result. :)

We fitted Dana/Spicer Power Lok LSD's to both ends of #413 a couple of years ago and they work fine. As British Airways used to say "A minimum of fuss". No mucking around with compressors, air hoses, tanks and associated fittings before you even get to the 'fragile' diff components with an air locker. The air locker system has so many interdependent components it's a monty to fail when you most need it. In comparison Dana Spicer LSD's are simple, strong and effective, and best of all set and forget. :)
We've travelled far and wide in various conditions including sand and mud and the LSD's have worked faultlessly.

Just one thing though, whilst the LSD's give enhanced traction and capability and will definitely get you though where open diffs may leave you floundering, when you do get bogged you do it in style :( Make sure your winch works or you may end up like this.




The indignity of it all, thousands of K's around the best/worst terrain the country has to offer without incident only to be bogged in my own front paddock. :( 4WD doesn't help much when you sink through the crust and into the 'spew' underneath, a bit like sinking through the crust of a claypan but not nearly as 'sticky'.

And to be towed out by my mates Patrol........................the shame, the shame.


Deano :)

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27 Feb 2014 16:36 #11 by Joseph Baz
Joseph Baz replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??

dandjcr wrote: I've just uploaded an ARB Installation Guide for the RD65 air locker to our Tech Docs library.

You can open/download it here .

Joe, from a practical perspective, how difficult is it to install an air locker?

The installation guide talks about backlash and dial gauges etc but if the diff was set up and working OK before installation, is all that really necessary?

Obviously a rear diff is a critical component so it needs to be installed correctly.

David the first thing that I do before I start to pull a diff apart is to look at the existing wear pattern,that will give you an idea of the pinion and carrier position,if the pattern is acceptable it will be minor shimming with the new carrier,I never come across a carrier replacement that given me exactly the previous pattern,also life is a lot easier with a set of setting up bearings that you can slide in and out while you getting the right settings,on a old diff that been running for many Km I wouldn't alter the wearing pattern if it's acceptable,Air lockers can be a bit fiddly as you have to drill the housing and fit the air fitting,Power Lok is an excellent LSD with many years in the market.
Cheers,Joe

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27 Feb 2014 16:43 #12 by Joseph Baz
Joseph Baz replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
Forgot to add,yes I always set the backlash with a dial gauge and check the pinion preload with a 1/4" drive torque wrench and after that it should be many KMs of happiness.
Cheers,Joe

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27 Feb 2014 18:12 #13 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
Thanks Joe, I was leaning towards the selectable ARB Air Locker (partly because I already have a reliable air supply, which seems to be a common source of ARB problems) and I was a bit concerned with the Power Lok LSD being engaged all the time. (Plus ARB are "Designed, engineered and manufactured in Australia", their words and there's not much of that around these days).

From my extensive research (I read a couple of articles and forum comments), there doesn't seem much between these types, they both have good and bad points.

I only plan to do the rear diff (already 35 spline) and you said last year you would suggest an air locker for the rear. Any reason to change that suggestion? Our travels are around 50/50 bitumen and off-road so I assumed a selectable locker would be the better choice?

Either way I'd like a bit more off-road assurance after last years bogging, and for steep sandy tracks like Steep Point and the CSR.

Regards, David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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27 Feb 2014 18:32 #14 by Joseph Baz
Joseph Baz replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
David,I mentioned the Power Lock as an alternative, my personal choice still is the Manually operated locker for the rear,another choice of lockers is the E locker which is electrically operated eliminating the internal O rings,ARB is the only OZ made.
Cheers,Joe
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27 Feb 2014 18:39 - 28 Feb 2014 13:32 #15 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??

Dean and Kaye Howells wrote: The indignity of it all, thousands of K's around the best/worst terrain the country has to offer without incident only to be bogged in my own front paddock.Deano :)


Deano, I know the humiliation of it. In an earlier life we traveled around the world in a Series 2A Land Rover with hardly any troubles at all, but then we got bogged in our own driveway in Adelaide, I backed into a newly dug Telecom trench after some rain, 3 wheels in mud and one in the air so we had call out a tow truck.

At least that wasn't as public as getting bogged in a rest area in Blackall in front of a group of caravaners.....



...and then being pulled out by a Land Cruiser:


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28 Feb 2014 06:42 #16 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??

Joseph Baz wrote: The 35spine part no for 4.88 ratio is RD 65, , don't re use the crown wheel bolts
Cheers Joe


Note that in 2012, ARB replaced the RD65 by model RD172 .

RD172 ARB Air Locker - Dana 70U/70HD/80 35 Spline 4.56 & Up

Regards, David

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28 Feb 2014 08:53 - 28 Feb 2014 09:51 #17 by Dean and Kaye Howells
Dean and Kaye Howells replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??

dandjcr wrote: ............................................I was a bit concerned with the Power Lok LSD being engaged all the time. (Plus ARB are "Designed, engineered and manufactured in Australia", their words and there's not much of that around these days).......................................... there doesn't seem much between these types, they both have good and bad points.

I only plan to do the rear diff (already 35 spline) and you said last year you would suggest an air locker for the rear. Any reason to change that suggestion? Our travels are around 50/50 bitumen and off-road so I assumed a selectable locker would be the better choice?

Either way I'd like a bit more off-road assurance after last years bogging, and for steep sandy tracks like Steep Point and the CSR.

Regards, David


David, whilst I haven't driven an Oka with an ARB air locker installed I did have a ride in Paul Notts once when he had one in the front. It was a terrible experience, harsh in action, harsh in operation and didn't want to engage/disengage if under power, which took a finite time to do. The other down side to me was the necessity to remember if it was in or out, just another distraction when trying to concentrate.

With the Power Lok LSD's there is none of the above problems, they are truly 'set and forget'. I was initially concerned that an LSD in the front might give 'straight line' steering problems but this has not been the case, I guess the Oka's reasonably heavy front axle load negates this potential problem where it might be an issue in other lighter 4WD's and certainly no issue with the rear. There's probably a slightly larger turning circle (due to the rear LSD) but it really isn't a problem. My old Fairlaine had a rear LSD and it was more difficult to control when cornering under power than the Oka.

Whilst there may be 'cons' to the LSD's when compared to a Locker, I can't think of any. One of the beauties of the Oka is its simplicity and thus its reliability. Creating a complex air system feeding what I consider to be a pretty fragile and hence unreliable air locker system is to me a backward step. What's next............ computer controlled engines :)

Seriously though, we've had the Oka up the CSR, Anne Beadell after 60mm of rain the night before as well as many miles on bitumen and varying dirt and seriously I wouldn't know the LSD's were there, except when they're needed.

Here's an example, after many hours of driving through similar terrain and for some unfathomable reason I decided to go to the right (left in picture) through this section of track. This totally ignored my basic off road philosophy of "When in doubt go straight through the guts!", and is a good example of why this is a good 'rule of thumb'.




If it wasn't for the LSD's I reckon I'd still be there as a roadside ornament. :(

As for the LSD's being 'engaged' all the time, I don't think this is correct. They are 'open' until one wheel loses traction and then take up and become locked, releasing when traction is the same on both wheels. The degree of 'harshness/speed' of takeup can be set when building the centre. So in effect on the highway the LSD is in fact an open diff :), that's my understanding anyway.

The only thing I haven't worked out is what is happening in the diff with the hubs engaged but in 2WD (it makes my brain hurt).

David I can definitely recommend the LSD's for effective (set and forget) on and off road use. :)


Deano :)

ps. what embarrassing tit bits have I missed from last years bogging incident.
Last Edit: 28 Feb 2014 09:51 by Dean and Kaye Howells.

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28 Feb 2014 15:16 - 28 Feb 2014 15:22 #18 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??

Dean and Kaye Howells wrote: The only thing I haven't worked out is what is happening in the diff with the hubs engaged but in 2WD (it makes my brain hurt).
David I can definitely recommend the LSD's for effective (set and forget) on and off road use. :)
Deano :)
ps. what embarrassing tit bits have I missed from last years bogging incident.

Deano, in 2WD, the front wheels can't easily rotate independently (unless one locks up under brakes on a slippery patch), so the LSD would not normally lock. If it did, the stable wheel would be locked to the slipping wheel so you'd still get benefit from the LSD. Of course I could be wrong...

Last year's embarrassing tidbit was when we got bogged for a day on the Hunt Oil Road in the Gibson Desert, both drivers side wheels went down to the diffs when the track gave way on a soft patch near Alexandra Spring. (See here ).



An LSD wouldn't have stopped us getting bogged, my poor judgement caused that, but it might have made it a bit easier to get out, by climbing up a sand mat instead of spinning the opposite wheel. Instead we had to lift the Oka and build up the track under the wheels, 8 hours of hard work. Help arrived just after we finished.

Thanks for your input on the diff locker debate, plenty of food for thought.

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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03 Mar 2014 16:25 #19 by Joseph Baz
Joseph Baz replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
David,I'm with Dean regarding the front diff ,a front locker will turn any 4x4 into a pig that will only go straight ahead,Personally I do like a manually operated locker.....maybe I'm just a control freak,but it gives me a peace of mind to know that I have a locked diff before I venture across a tight spot,on the other hand as Dean said a LSD is a set and forget and when time to rebuild comes a clutch pack is reasonably priced,please note that I'm talking about the Power Lok which in my opinion is the best suited for the OKA. and you are correct with the explanation of 2WD with FWH
Cheers,Joe

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03 Mar 2014 16:39 #20 by Joseph Baz
Joseph Baz replied the topic: Open Diff centre to Airlocker Ring gear??
Here's an example, after many hours of driving through similar terrain and for some unfathomable reason I decided to go to the right (left in picture) through this section of track. This totally ignored my basic off road philosophy of "When in doubt go straight through the guts!", and is a good example of why this is a good 'rule of thumb'.

Dean,that photo remains me of a time'on a Sunday afternoon when I went looking for some donkey meat for the dogs,got stuck in the side of the road....it was that split second that i made the wrong selection as per what side to take,got stuck overnight wit a load of stinking donkey meat,it was the following morning that the owners of Lamboo station were travelling to town and pull me out,mind you that was a Cruiser with an open diff.
Cheers,joe

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