Centramatic Wheel Balancers

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23 May 2014 06:05 - 23 May 2014 09:16 #41 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
A simple question.

Except for rotating to the front, do rear wheels (or spares) really need to be balanced?

Would Centramatics on the front not be sufficient?

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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Last Edit: 23 May 2014 09:16 by dandjcr.

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23 May 2014 09:43 - 23 May 2014 09:44 #42 by Hal Harvey
Hal Harvey replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers

dandjcr wrote: Do rear wheels really need to be balanced? Would Centramatics on the front not be sufficient?


My thought is yes to balance any rotating wheel - if left unbalanced on the rear (or trailer) you're asking suspension components to absorb a lot of extra shock, which will wear components faster, and on the vehicle at least, is bound to contribute some harshness into ride comfort.

Principal advisor to the Minister for Tourism, Liza Harvey MLA
... OKA 260 ... "I'm not leaving any sooner than I have to!"
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Last Edit: 23 May 2014 09:44 by Hal Harvey.

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27 May 2014 14:23 - 27 May 2014 20:18 #43 by Hal Harvey
Hal Harvey replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
Just further to the above, my usual thought process with things like that is to take it to a ridiculous extreme, and then work back to what you're prepared to compromise with. If you welded a ten kilo chunk of steel off centre to one of the rear rims and then went to drive across Australia, you would expect it to shake itself to pieces at some stage. That's what you're doing by not balancing a rotating mass - just not to that degree. But the result will be the same, it just might take a hundred or a thousand times as long. So if you wouldn't do it with ten kilos, you shouldn't do it with 200g either, should you?

Hummer (old style) Centramatic balancers weigh 1.5kg, and the alternative, 300-318A, weighs 1.0kg. Bruce is inclined to go with the 1.5kg rings because they provide the most balancing effect, on our big tyres. But he needs to get more made and the company may be able to do a better job of it; along the style of the 300-318A with the smooth surface, rather than the old-style Hummer ones with the tabs welded on that may be less than ideal with a 19.5" steel wheel. They'll clear on my alloys anyway so I've ordered his remaining stock of old-style Hummer ones.

This is the 1.0kg ones, 300-318A, fitted to the front of the OKA with the balance ring inboard:



... and mounted the same way, the old-style Hummer ones showing the clearance from the front disk calliper (several mm, plenty):



... and the Hummer rings fit inside a 16" split rim, which we got to test on the weekend on Frank Thomas' XT (this also confirmed that the hubs front & rear on an XT are identical to an LT's):



Bruce will be speaking to Centramatic overnight and will have further answers re availability and timeline in a few days. But at any rate, the bottom line is that it can be done, and the one size will fit inside every rim that will fit on to an OKA - and we've tried a heap of different ones. Bruce's phone number (Centramatic Australia) is 0418 285 087.

Principal advisor to the Minister for Tourism, Liza Harvey MLA
... OKA 260 ... "I'm not leaving any sooner than I have to!"
www.byles.net/OLDportal/members-vehicles-public/5-oka-260
Last Edit: 27 May 2014 20:18 by Hal Harvey.
The following user(s) said Thank You: PeteFox, Rick Whitworth, Ewart and Vivian Halford, TH, Kav1050, DarrenWebster303

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09 Sep 2017 16:53 #44 by Peter Davis
Peter Davis replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
I called Bruce a few months ago regarding Centramatics suitable for 305 70r19.5. Never heard back. Has anyone with same size tyres had any luck purchasing and did they work.
On a separate note how does one view pictures from photobucket?
Cheers

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09 Sep 2017 18:54 #45 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
About 12,000km ago (including Birdsville to Brisbane at 90-95kph), I added 400g of #4 shot gun pellets to each 305/70R19.5.
Cost was about $90 for 10kg. That is $3.60 per wheel.
One of those wheels had 250g of lead weights on it.
I am a happy chappy. No more balancing at $30+ per wheel for me. :)

Cheers,
Peter

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09 Sep 2017 19:02 #46 by Ralley
Ralley replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
I have been running them for around 100000kms now and I would do it again for sure. When I first put them on we left the weights on. When the new tires went on they weren't balanced. I even had a hub running out that left flat spots in the old tires because I didn't know it was out because there was no out of balance while driving.
Rob

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10 Sep 2017 07:52 #47 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers

Peter Davis wrote: On a separate note how does one view pictures from photobucket?
Cheers


Peter, and anyone else upset with Photobucket, see my post here .

David

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10 Sep 2017 15:44 #48 by Peter Davis
Peter Davis replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
Hi Rob
Do you know what size Centramatics you used?
300-318, 400-448,300-324 etc
Cheers
Peter

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10 Sep 2017 18:12 #49 by Ralley
Ralley replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
Not without having a look. I went to his place in Sydney and we tried a few different one's, from memory he said they were for a dually and they are a neat fit in the 19.5's. If I remember when I get back in a few weeks and rotate the tires I'll have a look at the part number.

Rob

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13 Sep 2017 11:18 #50 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
Still 90 dollars for 10kg. wonder if SS shot is available.

Did you feed it in via the valve stem

Tony

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13 Sep 2017 16:09 - 13 Sep 2017 16:19 #51 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers

$90 for 25 wheels. I went 50/50 with someone else.
Used the same method for the ones fitted. Very easy, very quick. No need to jack up.
I found some 4mm S/S balls on ebay for about $70/kg ex the UK.

Cheers,
Peter

Cheers, Peter.
OKA196 tinyurl.com/OKA196xtMotorhome
Mob.0428171214
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Last Edit: 13 Sep 2017 16:19 by Peter_n_Margaret.

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14 Sep 2017 09:03 #52 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
Not sure I am reading their advert right but 4mm SS balls from China are as little as $5 US per kg. Fast delivery will add a heap to that if required, but I'm getting a quote for a few kg anyway

Tony

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25 Sep 2017 11:25 #53 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
The Chinese Alibaba SS ball bearing suppliers ended up not being as cooperative as they first made out, so having just put new Toyo tyres on (only because I couldn't find any other 19.5" tyres in any other reputable brand but not able to get them balanced because Cleavers had lost the mandrel they used last time and gave me $100 back to get it done somewhere else) I've decided to follow Peter's advice and use lead shot instead. Have always been skeptical but will rely on his apparent immunity from Confirmation Bias.
#4 lead shot - 3.2mm diameter - was out of stock so I've ordered 10kg of #9 shot which is 2.2mm diameter, still well within the size range of commercial products.

Cost landed at my place is near enough to $10 per kilo so if anyone else wants to try it out, the cost would be $10 per kilo plus postage which should be only around $15 for a couple of kilo.
Amounts required for 285 R70 19.5 are 8 ounces per tyre - 226gm and for 305 R70 19.5 it is 12 oz per tyre approx 350g per tyre. For other sizes, quantities are at www.counteractbalancing.com/applications/

Tony

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25 Sep 2017 11:37 #54 by PeteFox
PeteFox replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
I am curious about the use of lead shot pellets.
I’m wondering how much lead dust is going to be inside the wheel at tyre change time and how to deal,with it?
I imagine that the tyre fitters aren’t going to be too happy.
Pete

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25 Sep 2017 11:55 #55 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
Which is why I looked at SS balls. The 10kg of balls costs a whole $50 but DHL courier was going to cost USD250. China post have a cheap 20kg box rate but apparentlyt the prospect of a million small bearings getting loose in their machinery raised a lot of red flags, I'll try a couple of more factories. Maybe zirconium or other ceramics might have less freight restrictions.

As for the lead, yes, I mentioned that to Peter, but I imagine we (and the others who used lead) will deal with it as responsibly as possible when the time comes to replace the tyres. Talking to the gun shop today, he said for every tin of shot sold for reloading shotgun shells, 10 tins are ordered for other purposes including a lot for tyre balancing

Tony

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25 Sep 2017 13:01 - 25 Sep 2017 13:08 #56 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
I don't want to be a wet blanket (especially since I was Peter's other 50/50 lead shot person), but BillaVista, a recognised authority on Pirate4x4, posted this negative comment on lead shot back in 2006 (last post on page).

The shot would only be moving/creating dust at speeds lower than the balance speed but I hadn't considered the problem of lead dust blowing out when lowering air pressures, which we do a lot. More of a problem I think than the once every 2-3 years for tyre changing.

Led shot is a long time favorite for balancing tyres, but not without it's problems it seems.

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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Last Edit: 25 Sep 2017 13:08 by dandjcr.

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25 Sep 2017 14:39 #57 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
Don't think he knows. Just assuming which isn't very authoritative. -- "Imagine the lead gets somewhat pulverized / powdered while smashing about in there - then you go to air down and ....puff, get a nice snort of lead dust." - but of course there has to be some gradual erosion of the shot so unless the lead is too soft to get bits knocked off, there is likely to be small particles ending up mixed in with the shot. Maybe because it is lead and very heavy, and even the oxide is nearly as heavy, there is no dust inside a stationary tyre to be blown out.

Tony

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25 Sep 2017 15:27 - 25 Sep 2017 15:41 #58 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers

Tony Lee wrote: Maybe because it is lead and very heavy, and even the oxide is nearly as heavy, there is no dust inside a stationary tyre to be blown out.


Bit of assumption as well Tony?

Anyway as long as we are aware there are potential risks we can make personal judgements, and I think (will assume) your argument has some merit and I'll be careful.

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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Last Edit: 25 Sep 2017 15:41 by dandjcr.

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01 Oct 2017 09:46 #59 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
Added 240gm to each wheel - through the valve stem which saved the risk of losing the seal on the bead.

Went for a drive and it "seemed" (that confirmation bias again) smoother so what I took for a little bit of roughness due to the blockier tread might have been a balance problem.
Yesterday, poking around underneath, I noticed that Cleaver tyres had left a 160gm balance weight on the inside of one of the back wheels. Hmmmm. So took it off. Poked around a bit more and as you would expect, they left a weight on the inside of every wheel. Now all removed.

So of course the question is how susceptable is the OKA to out of balance wheels? Given that it is par for the course to arrive back home after a trip and wash off a kg or two of baked on mud from each wheel, I's suggest not very.

Just went for another run and all the way up to 108kmph GPS the ride was smooth, Confirmation Bias of not.

Tony

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08 Feb 2022 18:32 #60 by Witchdoctor
Witchdoctor replied the topic: Centramatic Wheel Balancers
I tried on multiple times to engage the Australian importer with no luck.

I’m now dealing direct & awaiting Centromatic icing me a delivered price on the 300-318 model

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