Turbo upgrade

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12 Aug 2016 17:36 #201 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Hopefully much ado about nothing.

Mounting the turbo on to the exhaust manifold on the bench and comparing the new one with where the old one would have sat, I can't see that the new one extends any further towards the gear shift rods than the old one. Martyn did suggest that they had soved the clearance problem and it looks like he might have been spot on with his forecast.

One minor error is for the connection between the turbo and the manifold, the machining on e back for the nut seating is a touch tight and the flange on the nuts had to be ground down a bit in diameter so the nuts would seat properly.

So far so good.

Tony
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13 Aug 2016 17:14 #202 by John and Bronwyn
John and Bronwyn replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Sounds as though Tony was lucky!

On 191, the gear linkage would have well and truly fouled the wastegate actuator. so it had to be moved. And to make room for it, the T/C linkage had to be moved too.

The new linkages:



Note the "kink" in the middle of both. I found that a simple bend would not do the job, there is just not enough space available to blend the "bent out" portion (to clear the turbo) back to the original shape by the time the linkages have to pass inside the chassis rail.

Some dimensions:
The T/C linkage: the two bnds closest to the front are bent a bit more to step the section past the engine out by 35mm. The offset to step it back in is 820mm from the tip of the front of the linkage. This could usefully be about 5 to 10mm more but care needs to be taken not to end up with the offset fouling the chassis rail. The reason to make it slightly more is that with the T/C in H4 and the gearbox in 4th, there is only a few mm clearance between the two offsets.

The main thing with this linkage is to get the length correct. The bending shortens it by about 10mm, this is added back in the angled offset. The offset is 35mm centre to centre. Also ensure the linkage aligns properly with the guide tabs on the inside of the chassis rail. It will need to be pretty much against the rail.

The gearbox offset is 580mm from the front end of the UJ. Again the offset is 35mm. When making the offset, the UJ should be on a line extended along the axis of the linkage section at the back so that this section (with the tab) rotates true.

It is probably a good idea to fit the longer tab to this linkage, too (the tab to the radius arm to the top of the gearbox). Some versions have this quite short, this results in a wide gearbox "H" (lot of movement from left to right). This has been discussed in other threads. This also causes the linkage to move through a much wider angle, hence requiring much more space for it to move. My tab (which looks original) is 75mm from the centre of the tube to the centre of the hole. Some photos show this tab much shorter.

This linkage has two gotchas. The length must be correct, as must the angle of the tab. If the tab is wrong you can have clearance problems (probably to the underside of the air inlet to the turbo) and / or inability to select gears on one side or the other of the "H". The offset does slightly increase the angle at the UJ but this should cause no problems.

Another thing to check - my T/C linkage was just about ready to fall apart with rust at the rear end. Obviously moisture, condensation, dust etc had rusted it out internally and caused it to split. This was on the top and not visible. I replaced about 250mm ofthe linkage (that's why the tube is a bit smaller diameter at the back end).



I haven't fitted the turbo yet, that will be soon.
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13 Aug 2016 20:05 #203 by mort
mort replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
I have just had a lengthy conversation with John as I couldn't see how his could be different to all other XT OKA's that I have seen and I now suspect that at some point his has been modified and now looking again at photos it looks like his gear rod is a combination of XT and LT rods joined in the middle if any others have a similar setup I guess you will need to do the same but I am not expecting it.
Martyn

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13 Aug 2016 20:25 - 13 Aug 2016 20:31 #204 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
No such luck. Gear shift linkage did foul a bit, but a couple of carefully calibrated whacks with a big sledge hammer on wooden blocks increased the two bends a touch and gave enough clearance. Adjusted the length with the screw end to get the gear lever back in the middle and job was done. Transfer case rod also needed some adjustment outwards so the gear change rod didn't foul. Took a few whacks on each of the three bends to get that right as there isn't as much to play with because of the anti rattle support in the middle.
I fully installed the turbo and all the rest and then did the adjustments by eye on the rods once I had something to go by.

One problem I did have was with the t bracket that supports the turbo exhaust outlet back to the block. The two slotted holes on the left (rear of engine) had to be cut right out rather than just slotted a bit further and the bolts are actually half outside the base plate and the single slot on the right had to be cut back into the flange on the center of the bracket. Still, seems to be sturdy enough even if not exactly pretty.

Just the exhaust pipe to go back on now but I won't be able to fire it up until I get the steering box back and reinstalled.

Tony
Last Edit: 13 Aug 2016 20:31 by Tony Lee.

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14 Aug 2016 06:31 #205 by John and Bronwyn
John and Bronwyn replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Thanks Martyn
I think the gear linkage in 191 will remain a mystery!
The linkage was all one piece (no sign of a join) until I cut it to install the offset.
Another mystery is the flat area clearly visible in the photo. This is obviously to provide clearance to the underside of the air intake pipework to the turbo.
There is more to this than appears - not only has the pipe been scalloped out and the flat section seam welded back in, the other side of the pipe has also been sleeved over the full length of the flat area and fully seam welded. This must have been a very time-consuming (= costly) exercise and I cannot imagine a production run like that. A cheaper alternative would have been found pronto!
Another clue - if the linkage was in the position to foul the air pipework it would also be very close to the turbo, as it was.
I think it probably came from the factory, maybe as a trial of some sort, and was "made to fit" when it wasn't quite right.
Anyway, we will never know.

Re the mods I made, the hard part was deciding what to do so it would all fit. The actual 'cut and shut' was not difficult. Hopefully others won't need to be as drastic!

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15 Aug 2016 12:46 #206 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Well, the steering steers which of course it did perfectly well before, but the input shaft doesn't leak which I suppose is an improvement that at $650 some would say is value for money.

And the handbrake actually brakes as it should following the rear seal replacement - and now that the drain passage is open so oil doesn't run all over the brake, hopefully it will keep braking even if the seal leaks again. With the rear lock nut tightened to specifications the brake drum doesn't flop up and down like it did, so hopefully the seal will seal for longer.

And the new turbo turbos and there are no funny noises or air or oil or exhaust coming out where they shouldn't.

WooHoo!

So that will do for now. Enough is enough!

Iceland beckons.

Back in about 12 months.

Tony

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15 Aug 2016 14:00 - 15 Aug 2016 15:44 #207 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Turbo upgrade

Tony Lee wrote: but the input shaft doesn't leak which I suppose is an improvement that at $650 some would say is value for money.


Given that the brakes run off the same hydraulic pressure, keeping the fluid in seems a wise investment.

Sorry, a bit cranky at the moment....

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.
Last Edit: 15 Aug 2016 15:44 by dandjcr. Reason: A bit cranky

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15 Aug 2016 16:01 #208 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: Turbo upgrade

Tony Lee wrote:
Iceland beckons.

Back in about 12 months.


Bon voyage. My envy and respect go with you.
Cheers, Paul

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16 Aug 2016 04:33 - 16 Aug 2016 05:09 #209 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Thanks Paul.
Should we ask why David? (Assuming OKA-related??)

One other benefit is the gear change into first and reverse seems a lot easier so I guess my sledge-hammer efforts were just right.

As for performance. Sad that because of the steering box being out and deciding at the last minute to do the turbo, I didn't get to do some performance tests with the old turbo so the following is purely subjective.
Trying very hard to reduce the effects of confirmation bias - which is pretty well impossible to do in cases like this where money AND a fair bit of effort is involved - it seems as if there is markedly more power available. On the highway heading south from Bulahdelah to Nerong I hit the freeway intersection at least 20kmph faster than usual and it stayed that way up the long hills which previously would have had me down to 4th and thinking about 3rd. Coming back was able to maintain from 100 to 109 most of the way which was never possible before. Around town at down to below 1000 rpm is very smooth.
I have straight through exhaust and had previously cut the inside shield out of the air cleaner, but apart from that is standard. No tuning tweaks or extra fuel yet.
One thing I noticed was that previously there was no effect from being at top speed attainable (which with my high big box on the back was rarely more than 100 in ideal conditions) with foot flat to the floor and then lifting my foot an inch, but now as soon as I start to lift my foot I can feel the response. What it means I have no idea, but maybe that before it wasn't able to use the fuel that last part of the throttle was providing, whereas now it is able to use it.

Anyway, being the expert non-mechanic I am, I was more than happy that it all fired up when I turned the key (after first bridging out the starter solenoid to crank the engine to prime the oil feed to the turbo without starting the engine) so anything extra is just a bonus.

Tony
Last Edit: 16 Aug 2016 05:09 by Tony Lee.
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16 Aug 2016 07:09 #210 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Turbo upgrade

Tony Lee wrote: Thanks Paul.
Should we ask why David? (Assuming OKA-related??)


Tony, apologies, my comment was supposed to be more practical than sarcastic. Doesn't always come out as intended.

A few personal problems, not Oka related, except frustration at missing out on this years trip and not being able to get back to it. A pile of stuff, inc a new turbo, awaiting my attention.

Janet's medical issues are improving and with warmer weather things are looking up.

Your anecdotal feedback on the new turbo effectiveness seems consistent with others reports, very encouraging, thanks. And a big thank you to Mort for doing all the donkey work.

Glad the handbrake now works, my overhaul was similarly successful. Whoo Hoo indeed.

Have a good trip to Iceland.

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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16 Aug 2016 19:41 #211 by RobS
RobS replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Hi Martyn,
Further to our conversation last week, please add my name to the list for the next run of turbo's. XT type please.

Thanks

Rob

#003

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17 Aug 2016 15:54 #212 by mort
mort replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Rob yes I have your name on the list but as I have told you the factory will only make minimum of ten and as you are the second wanting one it may take some time but I will keep you informed.

Tony it is good that you have installed with no real issues and have gotten good results you will be happy with performance and even better when you get back and have it tuned properly.
Enjoy your trip

Martyn
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29 Aug 2016 15:01 #213 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Thanks for your efforts Martyn

I guess all the others are waiting for everyone else to install their turbo. Be interesting to see all the different results

Tony

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30 Aug 2016 05:03 #214 by 210greg
210greg replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Starting to prepare to install turbos will do 366 first and then 210 does anyone have a list of bits (bends ect) required to do air intake as we are somewhat isolated and want to and order all we need before starting job.

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30 Aug 2016 06:25 #215 by Frank
Frank replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
probably depends on which air filter you use.

my list is:
0610245 102mm x 45 M/S (mild steel) bend
190154102 102mm Ali tube 1m
94106-0450 T bolt clamp 105-118mm qty 4
94106-0600 T bolt clamp 145-160mm
94106-0550 T bolt clamp 130-144mm
94106-0325 T bolt clamp 72-85mm
94106-0350 T bolt clamp 80-92mm
RI076057 76-57 reducing insert
CRL10290 102mm x 90 deg rubber bend
ERL10207090 102-70mm rubber 90 bend
BHHR127102 127-102 Hump Hose reducer
BHHR140102 140-102 Hump hose reducer
G110119 air cleaner

I had one clamp left over, all came from engine protection equipment in myaree, wa

Frank & Christine Thomas
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30 Aug 2016 06:38 #216 by 210greg
210greg replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Frank your bloods worth bottling.

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30 Aug 2016 07:16 - 30 Aug 2016 07:20 #217 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Turbo upgrade

210greg wrote: Frank your bloods worth bottling.


Agreed, and for info, the Engine Protection Equipment (EPE) website is here .

Their Turbo Saviour device looks interesting.

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.
Last Edit: 30 Aug 2016 07:20 by dandjcr.
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30 Aug 2016 17:07 #218 by Frank
Frank replied the topic: Turbo upgrade

210greg wrote: Frank your bloods worth bottling.

mosquitoes do that regularly.

Also the RI076057 76-57 reducing insert is actually the wrong one to buy, it was all they had in stock and I had to trim it on the lathe and reduce the diameter.
You actually want the 70-57 I think. It fits on the turbo inlet and the 102-70mm rubber 90 bend fits over it.

Working on making a cable shifter up at present for #164 as my gearshift rod rubs on the 102-70mm rubber 90 bend .

Anyone else interested in one?

Frank & Christine Thomas
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30 Aug 2016 17:19 #219 by Frank
Frank replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Also I angled the rubber interface edges on the insert in the hope of giving the air a smoother path into the turbo.

Frank & Christine Thomas

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30 Aug 2016 17:22 #220 by Joseph Baz
Joseph Baz replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Frank is far more valuable walking around than in a bottle!!
Cheers,Joe

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