Turbo upgrade

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13 May 2016 08:35 #41 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Turbo upgrade

mort wrote: I just spent an hour typing only to be told your session has timed out
Martyn

doh!! I hate that!
.. but don't be discouraged, keep typing Martyn. I have a fully reconditioned stock standard Perk 110 (done only 60000 kms) runs reliably all day and climbs vertical walls when asked.
For some time have been looking at options to upgrade it to 135 status to improve highway driving.

Very, very interested in all details and willing to support your progress.
cheers
Rick
PS ignore the DARK SIDE ..no choice for me anyway unless I win the lottery
..but that's a different blog

Rick Whitworth: OKA XT 149.

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13 May 2016 14:06 - 13 May 2016 16:47 #42 by mort
mort replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Try again
After leaving frank in the morning I was going home but decided to keep driving as it was more fun than usual.
There doesn't appear to be any turbo lag I change gear and get a smooth acceleration.
Going up hills well more like bumps really but over in the west we do have hills maybe not as many as over in the east Kalamunda hill is a long hill that every thing slows and at the bottom is road works and speed of 40 a prime mover ( not ladened B double ) passed me but I did catch up and eventually passed him, by the time I got near the top changed into 3rd and accelerated away, I use that hill as a regular test and never have I been able to do more than hold my speed.
Ralley had stated that I appear happy with the result well....BIG YES
The engine and turbo still have a lot more to give yet, I had contacted Perkins not long after getting the OKA and asked what would be the max boost be,as my computer had crashed and no back ups so from memory reply was 20 no problem and without knowing the condition of engine wont state any more.Since then I have a full Phaser manual and of all the 24 turbos fitted to the Phaser the lowest waste gate pressure is 13.9 highest is 21.8 so I picked 16 as as a low starting point.
The 135Ti is the same engine as 110 different turbo and intercooled water to air using engine coolant.
the phaser is a good strong engine however in my case I dont know how it was used or abused so start low and I can allways work up.
Rick in your case you have a good engine you know the history so you could put on this Turbo and set it for 18 or 20 and have no problems except how to wipe the smile off your face.

why go this route? well when I got the OKA some 3yrs ago driving home first thought what a gutless pig of a thing it needs a new engine but as the miles rolled on half the problem is it just isnt breathing well so first job was work on the air in then exhaust well all black smoke gone and it ran better.
I was now encouraged to see how far I could take this before engine transplant,the funny thing is the more I did the less I wanted to change engines and really the turbo was the last thing to do and if no good result I would give up and work towards a transplant.
My main sticking point to a transplant is the cost, I can afford it but I cant justify the cost and there is many others who are in the same position or want some thing better but cant afford or dont have the knowledge or contacts I do so when I started this topic 18 odd people put up there hands and said I will be interested if you can do it.
I started with the Turbo from the 135Ti but it didnt fit without changing the exhaust manifold, dump pipe and gear linkage so we set to building one ourselves but the sticking point was gear linkage and giving an even boost so got engineers involved and the result after 6 attempts is what I have.
A Turbo that bolts straight on you dont have to be an engineer,fabricator or mechanic but I would strongly suggest upgrading your exhaust, filter and snorkel ( simple job can do yourself ) and most important get dyno and fuel pump set to suit its not as simple as adjusting fuel till you get smoke.

I dont know price yet because I havnt got a reply but it will be somewhere close to the what I quoted in the beginning ($600) + a bit more as these are a one off Turbo not off the shelf and need to be made as a special order.... am I making money out of this Yes I wanted a Turbo United Diesel quoted $1800 + with no guarantees and gear linkage needed moving I have funded this exercise and it wasnt cheap so if I get all my money back I am happy if I get some back and it cost me $1000 I am still way in front as I have a better Turbo and saved $800.
From placing order to packed ready for shipping 20 days.
As soon as I hear back from factory I will let you know price and anyone interested can place order.

BAD NEWS
Frank wants a Turbo I have an LT he has an XT he asked if it will fit in his silly me said why not he said but its different so I had a look and took measurements no it wont.
All measurements are based on an LT and the space available so unless you have auto,cable shifter or willing to modify gear linkage if there are the numbers I will have to get the factory to modify this Turbo to suite so let me know if you want one and we will see what the numbers are.

Martyn
Last Edit: 13 May 2016 16:47 by mort.

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14 May 2016 05:13 #43 by 210greg
210greg replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Have been following with great interest if it helps keep the DARK SIDE at bay all good. 210 has 440K on the clock still running well would I be pushing my luck to think of this upgrade.
Greg

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14 May 2016 09:08 #44 by darren lilly
darren lilly replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
any idea on shipping cost to east coast (newcastle)

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14 May 2016 09:23 #45 by darren lilly
darren lilly replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Mort do you know how it will go towing a car trailer with a cj jeep on it

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14 May 2016 10:25 - 14 May 2016 10:29 #46 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Martyn
The XT version will incur extra cost, but if it is reasonable amount I am willing to join forces with Frank and others to reduce overhead. Your aim for direct bolt on is huge advantage
In my own investigations, XT linkage space was issue with not enough room for suitable Garret waste gated turbos.

Of course the extra plumbing around the gear linkages for an intercooler (which is a must to compliment the waste gate) is also a consideration.

Given the work that you already have had done and the the $$ figures you mention seems to be well worth a try
Rick

Rick Whitworth: OKA XT 149.
Last Edit: 14 May 2016 10:29 by Rick Whitworth.

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14 May 2016 14:02 #47 by mort
mort replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
I have had a number of questions both on the open forum and P/Ms so I will try to answer here or if you are genuine and not just wanting info for curiosity sake I find it easier to talk direct so my mobile is 0414632270 I will welcome your call.
This isnt in the order that I received them or exactly how it was framed.
Will fitting new Turbo be better for towing...will I go faster...on my own OKA I got roughly 30% increase in power at wheels so yes your ability to tow is 30% greater. 30% can mean more power to get up to speed faster or hold the speed your doing longer but not more or greater speed in other words your top speed in whatever gear your in is your top speed.
Will I need to change gear as often...Frank took it for a drive the other day he said it drove like an auto well I haven't asked what he meant yet but he also said driving around the suburban streets he put it in 3rd and left it there. I found that it builds up speed quicker so gear changes going up could be closer together than before but say going up a hill where you had to change down now 5th will get you over.
I came back from Northern to Perth good road and hills and only changed into 4th twice until I came into built up areas.
I have an engine that has done 400,000 am I pushing my luck...The engine was built and came with a combination of Turbos up a boost of 21 so if you have the same Turbo I had which only gave me at best was 14 on my gauge then all this time the engine has been working well under powered the real question you need to ask is what condition is my engine in and I cant answer that. eg is it on its last legs and only have 10,000 klm left so put on Turbo thrash the shit out of it and destroy it in 1,000 klm do you blame the Turbo,if like Rick new engine serviced well driven like an old grandma would dont even think put it on and enjoy. only you know your engine is it in good condition is there a lot of life still but dont forget if OKA didnt want to pinch pennies or had the options your engine could have had a better Turbo producing a boost of 20 from day one and still done 500,000 klm.
What up grades do I need to do ...as stated in an earlier post get rid of baffled muffler, increase air filter and snorkel if you really want match port exhaust and inlet manifold and put on a suitable intercooler. whether you change Turbo or not do it.

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14 May 2016 16:43 #48 by mort
mort replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Back to questions
If I put an auto in will it be suitable...not much to say except YES better than you have now.
How much will it cost for Turbo and intercooler, filter,and exhaust mods....if you do the work yourself and source all the parts on line (EBay etc) plus dyno between $1,500 and $2,000
Is it really worth the cost...well that is an answer only you can give but let me ask at a boost of 16 I got an increase of say 30% at say a boost of 18 say 35% or boost of 20 say 40% increase of power if that is not worth less than $2,000 then you cannot be pleased.

For the XT owners we now have a Turbo that will all that is needed so no need to change the Turbo itself its the wastegate actuator and wastegate itself that doesnt clear the gear linkage. the actuator can be mounted on the bottom of the Turbo and the wastegate arm needs to be turned upside-down easy enough, the factory initially wants minimum order of 20 but they may agree to say 15 of one and 5 of the other I wont know till I place numbers in front of them.

Martyn

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14 May 2016 16:59 #49 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Martyn you've done a lot of good work and I'm teetering on the brink as well. My engine is pretty solid (no oil or water use and overhauled injector pump) but the XT complication is a concern.

Of the goodies on your list, I have at least upgraded to a straight though muffler (available in Adelaide here or on line). Lots of use full stuff there too and not expensive.

I would be more enthused except the "jc" part of dandjcr is off to hospital for a serious operation in a couple of weeks so we've had to abandon any trips or major upgrades for this year.

Keep up the good work.

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.

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14 May 2016 18:19 #50 by OKADOC
OKADOC replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Hi all , FYI Google. "cost effective maintenance " and have a captain cook at what's on offer, anyone with an engine that's knocked up above 300.000 ks will be knocked out by the outcome of these products, we certainly have been over the last 3 years with our fleet and 90 % of other users also, if the engines shagged only a rebuild will revive it but if it's just crud build up its very cost effective. It will certainly reveal the state of your engine with little effort and cost and allow dicisions on turbo upgrades and the like. Cheers all
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ewart and Vivian Halford

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14 May 2016 19:35 - 14 May 2016 20:34 #51 by Ewart and Vivian Halford
Ewart and Vivian Halford replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Hi Martyn sound good, were did you get it tuned and dyno'd
Cheers

Ewart oka 365
0428911147
Last Edit: 14 May 2016 20:34 by Ewart and Vivian Halford. Reason: Typo

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14 May 2016 20:52 #52 by mort
mort replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Ewart I used Fremantle Fuel Injection I had heard some bad reports about united and A1 weren't interested in an OKA so asked around and never got one bad report. When I rang they told me they were very familiar with OKAs when I picked it up the technician didnt want to give the keys back as he loves them.
Fremantle Fuel Injection
27 Strang Crt South Fremantle
Ph 93354803

I have used "Cost Effective Maintenance" in particular the oil flush after about 3,000 Klm the oil is still clean

Martyn
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16 May 2016 17:48 - 16 May 2016 18:04 #53 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Martyn,
If they come up with a workable XT version would hope that prices are extendable.
Guess it depends on the production process and how diferent they are.

E.g would an order for 10 LTs plus 10 XTs still qualify for total 20 ie $775 unit price :)

...Just optimistic thinkin ahead for interested XT and LT owners
Rick

Rick Whitworth: OKA XT 149.
Last Edit: 16 May 2016 18:04 by Rick Whitworth.

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16 May 2016 18:17 #54 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
I am thinking of going six cylinder Perkins and the gear shift mechanism of the XT gets in the way. I am planning to fabricate a cable shifter to solve that problem, and it should also solve the problem with the waste-gate turbo fitment to XT's.

I am hoping it will also result in a crisper gear change feel. Lloyd has one, and it is excellent, much better than stock.

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16 May 2016 21:44 #55 by mort
mort replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Hi Paul
Its timely that you bring up this subject as there is a couple of guys here who are looking into cable shift as an alternative and although I dont need one I would like one.
It might an idea to start a seperate post to canvas ideas and numbers I would certainly be interested.
Martyn

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16 May 2016 22:03 #56 by mort
mort replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
Hi Rick
I have heard back from the factory manager he doesn't think it is practical to alter this Turbo and will have to cast a new exhaust housing to suit so he wants me to take photos of the XT and LT top side and bottom so he can see what clearances the XT has and difference to LT I will do that tomorrow and wait for reply.

The price is based on numbers not model 10 of each would qualify as 20 the funny thing is there are more XT owners wanting Turbos than LT ( just having a laugh ) maybe LT owners think they have a superior vehicle and dont need one.

Martyn

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17 May 2016 05:43 #57 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: Turbo upgrade

mort wrote: Hi Paul
Its timely that you bring up this subject as there is a couple of guys here who are looking into cable shift as an alternative and although I dont need one I would like one.
It might an idea to start a seperate post to canvas ideas and numbers I would certainly be interested.
Martyn


Hi Martyn,
I have looked at ready-made after-market units and they are all too big for the application. There may be a suitable mechanism from a truck at a wreckers, I will investigate. I will be away for the next two weeks, but as soon as I return I will begin the hunt or fabricate one myself. Cables can be made to order in Australia so it shouldn't be too difficult.

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17 May 2016 06:33 - 17 May 2016 06:58 #58 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Turbo upgrade

mort wrote: I have heard back from the factory manager he doesn't think it is practical to alter this Turbo and will have to cast a new exhaust housing to suit so he wants me to take photos of the XT and LT top side and bottom so he can see what clearances the XT has and difference to LT


Thanks Martyn,
that's good news, further supports your plan for bolt on turbo purpose built to suit the Perkins 110. This will extend to all OKAs.

(Cable shift would be great but adds another level of complexity.
..My standard gearshift has settled in and is working well. Would prefer it was a separate consideration)

Rick Whitworth: OKA XT 149.
Last Edit: 17 May 2016 06:58 by Rick Whitworth.

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17 May 2016 07:35 - 17 May 2016 07:38 #59 by outyonda
outyonda replied the topic: Turbo upgrade
refer to O what a feeling, gears

gate & cables available, g/box selector is problem

it was an OKA special & was binned in one of there hiccup's

OKAs 091, 093, 094, 113, 346x6 & 405
Last Edit: 17 May 2016 07:38 by outyonda.

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17 May 2016 09:46 - 17 May 2016 09:49 #60 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Turbo upgrade

mort wrote: Hi Rick
I have heard back from the factory manager he doesn't think it is practical to alter this Turbo and will have to cast a new exhaust housing to suit so he wants me to take photos of the XT and LT top side and bottom so he can see what clearances the XT has and difference to LT I will do that tomorrow and wait for reply.
Martyn


Martyn, count me in for an XT upgrade.

I'm sure our collective knowledge and competence will sort out whatever XT problems arise.

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.
Last Edit: 17 May 2016 09:49 by dandjcr.
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