Perkins 6 cylinder into XT

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08 Oct 2016 16:49 #1 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek created the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
Hi all,

Has anyone fitted a 6 cylinder Perkins into an XT? If so, how did you get on with the cooling system? In a recent topic (radiator cleaning) it was pointed out that the XT didn't cool as well as the LT, and the Perkins 6 apparently is too much for the standard LT radiator so cooling could be even worse with the XT.

I am thinking of adding a second radiator where the bash plate protecting the steering track rod normally goes. There is space for a radiator about 700mm x 300mm, and it would rely on two 12" electric fans. These apparently are not as effective as an engine driven fan.

If anyone has any experience of the Perky 6 in an XT I would be really interested to learn of your results.

Cheers,

Paul

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08 Oct 2016 17:18 #2 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
Paul changes the XT radiator when swapping to a Perkins. Gets a much thicker core with more cooling capacity

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08 Oct 2016 18:04 #3 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
Paul when fitting the cummins 6bt to an Oka both XT and LT require radiator upgrades. Rob Alley will probably chime in, he and I had Taree radiators recore our radiator to a four core in my LT and I think Rob went to a 5 core in the XT. If it wasn't a 5 it would have been a 4 core. The standard LT is only a 2 core so the new four core doubles the capacity.My LT with the 6bt now has a coolant capacity of around 25 litres.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 680w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

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08 Oct 2016 18:07 #4 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT

Tony Lee wrote: Paul changes the XT radiator when swapping to a Perkins. Gets a much thicker core with more cooling capacity


Hi Tony, Paul does that for the Cummins conversion. He thinks that the Perkins 6 engines need more water cooling than the Cummins, and the problem is compounded because the Perkins 6 engine is too close to the standard XT radiator.

How is life up there in Iceland? Trip going well? Very envious.......

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08 Oct 2016 19:52 #5 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
From what I understand number of cores is not the only thing to consider and guys at PWR told me that going by core count is old school as such. Not sure I agree, I think its all relevant. They said you could have a two core radiator with the cores double the size of a radiator with a four core. It depends on the actually core size.

Having said all that Paul can help with a radiator and PWR if you are into aluminum

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08 Oct 2016 20:53 #6 by Ralley
Ralley replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
As Peter said I did upgrade the radiator but It's only a 4 core from memory, I also made the radiator 50mm taller and adjusted the tunnel to suit. Till now it has really been more than adequate even in temperatures edging 40deg and close to 8t the gauge stays steady and the digital watch dog fluctuates between 78 and 80 and the only time the fan cycles is when the revs drop down low like when you pull up behind a road train. I have really been very impressed with the efficiency of the Cummins compared to the Perkins considering I'm pushing 28psi of boost. I would think that the same setup with a Perkins should work. I spoke to the radiator place about running two radiators when I was setting up my intercooler and he said that he has never seen a twin radiator setup that was worth the extra space. I would use the space to setup a good intercooler. I was able to fit a 600x600x55 heat exchanger with a 16 inch fan on top of the bash plate for my intercooler. This really keeps the intake temperatures in check from 130 back to 60 on a long full load climb. If the 6 cylinder Perkins is anything like the 4 with the horrible head design a good intercooler could help a lot with cooling if you keep the tune at a reasonable point.
Rob

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09 Oct 2016 06:02 #7 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT

Peter and Sandra OKA 374 wrote: Paul when fitting the cummins 6bt to an Oka both XT and LT require radiator upgrades. Rob Alley will probably chime in, he and I had Taree radiators recore our radiator to a four core in my LT and I think Rob went to a 5 core in the XT. If it wasn't a 5 it would have been a 4 core. The standard LT is only a 2 core so the new four core doubles the capacity.My LT with the 6bt now has a coolant capacity of around 25 litres.


Thanks Peter, the problem is two-fold with the Perkins into the XT - first, the Perkins apparently needs a lot more cooling than the Cummins and secondly, the Perkins fan sits further forward so that the radiator needs to move forward on the XT and its size is further reduced. Even with 5 cores it could still be dodgy - that is why I was wondering if anyone had come up with a solution.

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09 Oct 2016 06:08 #8 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
Thanks OBJ and Rob.
OBJ, I would worry about an aluminium radiator failing due to fatigue given the sort of shaking around an Oka gets.
Rob, I am disappointed at what your radiator bloke said about double radiators - that was really my only option for added cooling. Still, good to know before I waste a lot of time and money.
Anyone got a magic wand I can borrow?

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09 Oct 2016 06:23 #9 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
" would worry about an aluminium radiator failing due to fatigue given the sort of shaking around an Oka gets"

I am with a similar opinion. However there are several OKA`s getting around with a PWR radiator. PWR sell radiators for off road racing vehicles. So I am thinking they cant be that bad.

The cost for one of their radiators is similar in price to upgrading your current radiator. About 1200 to 1500 dollars. If it can cool a 6 litre Cummins or Duramax, then it should do same for Perkins.

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09 Oct 2016 06:28 #10 by Ralley
Ralley replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
I wouldn't give up. I would still look into the second radiator. Also you could get rid of the aircon out of the tunnel that will reduce the heat. Is there any way you can mount the engine further back to give you more clearance and leave the radiator where it is? Could you mount an external oil cooler to take out some more heat? I was once told Impossibilities just take a bit longer.
Rob

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09 Oct 2016 06:45 #11 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT

Ralley wrote: I wouldn't give up. I would still look into the second radiator. Also you could get rid of the aircon out of the tunnel that will reduce the heat. Is there any way you can mount the engine further back to give you more clearance and leave the radiator where it is? Could you mount an external oil cooler to take out some more heat? I was once told Impossibilities just take a bit longer.
Rob

Rob, I can't move the engine back easily. To fit the Perkins I had to make up a cable gear change and the gearbox end sits on top of the gearbox - about 12mm from the rear cross-member. The oil cooler is a great idea - I will investigate that one, and I will look for more opinions on double radiators.
Cheers, Paul

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09 Oct 2016 07:23 #12 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
Rob is right. On 169 I mounted the A/C Condenser on the roof for the very reason to get more clean air into the radiator.

I would chat to PWR. I am sure they would be able to sort it out for you. I wouldn't be too worried about using aluminum.

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09 Oct 2016 07:28 #13 by Dave and Pauline Gray
Dave and Pauline Gray replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
Paul a couple of centuries ago I repowerd a Leyland Super Hippo truck chassis from a 212hp Leyland engine to a Cummins 250hp unit the radiator was from memory 800sq ins and the Cummins needed 1000 ,I recored the radiator with another row and that marginally improved the problem so as there was no room in the chassis for a bigger rad I had a fibreglass shroud made to enclose a fan of larger diameter plus higher pitch off a 320hp engine,this did the trick and it was only on the hottest of Kimberly days I had to be alert to the engine temps
If possible improve the airflow through the radiator with a bigger fan and shroud the drawback in my case was a lot more fan noise.
A second radiator with its own fan would be the way to go if you don't have the room for a bigger fan. Any other cooler system i.e. oil will help.
Another option is as the Ford Truck division did with LNT9000 series fit a cross flow radiator ,they used similar hp engines to Kenworth and Mack with a smaller radiator with no overheating problems.The cross flow appears to be a more efficient system but I have no experience of that.
Cheers Dave

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09 Oct 2016 08:02 #14 by mort
mort replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
Paul I did address this topic some what 2 years ago but due to negativity and bitchiness I did delete all that I wrote but if you are interested it may be your answer and I can revisit it now with 2 years driving.
Martyn

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09 Oct 2016 08:42 - 09 Oct 2016 09:01 #15 by outyonda
outyonda replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
Anyone got a magic wand I can borrow?[/quote]

Tap the Perkins with the magic wand & it may turn into a Cummins.

There is a 6cyl OKA at Bakers H├Čll, has cracked the sump on biff ?
Darren lilly has done a couple of them.


A Perkins is a draft horse, reliable but slow & heavy.
A Cummins is like a thourbred, reliable & gets thejob done.
4,6,8cyl perkins leak oil, & turtle up hills?

As Dave said, air flow ,
#346 has 4 core, large cores & more air flow for Cummins
Water capasity,
The old trucks had an extra tank connected,
Drag cars have tank for capacity

OKAs 091, 093, 094, 113, 346x6 & 405
Last Edit: 09 Oct 2016 09:01 by outyonda.

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09 Oct 2016 09:12 #16 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
Thanks for all the suggestions.

OBJ, I don't want to modify the air-con again - it works great as it is after the last mod.

Dave, that is interesting about the cross-flow being more effective. The second radiator would be cross-flow anyway, and I could easily make the main radiator cross-flow also. I do have a large fan available, which would certainly give better 'suck'. The shroud would be interesting.....

Mort, yes please, I would like to see that topic re-visited.

Outyonda, I was lucky (I think) to buy a brand new old stock Perkins 160 in a crate, left over from a bus company's spares. I like the Perkins engines - not as powerful as some, but very quiet and refined in operation. I gave up the need for speed when I gave up motorbikes.

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09 Oct 2016 14:05 #17 by mort
mort replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
Paul in I did look at a bigger radiator some time ago but because of cost I gave it a miss in Aus and looked overseas and could get custom made 4 core copper for about half the price of a recored one here but it meant numbers so if I can get 20 orders it will cost around $600
If you move up to the front like the LT with some mods to the grill.
Martyn
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09 Oct 2016 16:00 #18 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
The LT radiator is a cross flow too.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 680w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.
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09 Oct 2016 17:19 #19 by Peter334
Peter334 replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
I went to my local rad guy and got a large 3 core which is the same as a 4.5 core and ours sits on 82 d even when towing and ours cost $750 . Pwr used to race V8 super cars, Paul wheel racing his rads are in a lot of V8 super cars today they are tough.
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11 Oct 2016 05:14 #20 by Harry
Harry replied the topic: Perkins 6 cylinder into XT
Here is an idea for more room to put a 6 cylinder perky into a XT. Get the front of an Lt Oka and put it onto an XT then put the radiator in the front which will give you plenty of room and the cooling area that is needed ... but still a great Oka because it is s XT ... now that's food for thought ???? No need for electric fan , no need for extra radiator, and it all looks standard and keeps with the basic Oka set up

Jenny and I both enjoy the great outdoors. We try to get away 4 to 5 month a year.
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