Springs

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27 Oct 2016 13:32 #1 by fishing01
fishing01 created the topic: Springs
I have just upgraded diffs in 204, gone in for wheel alignment all good but mechanics told me there is slight lateral movement of the spring on the shackle pin. Anyone else noticed this? Should I try to shim it??

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27 Oct 2016 13:48 #2 by Frank
Frank replied the topic: Springs
mine went clunk - clunk every corner because of this when I put new springs in. A couple of large washers in the gaps fixed things.

Frank & Christine Thomas

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27 Oct 2016 14:13 #3 by John and Bronwyn
John and Bronwyn replied the topic: Springs
I also have the clunk-clunk.
All pins & bushes replaced recently - clunk still there. (Substantial improvement in other ways but not the clunk).
Mine is not caused by the main leaf moving on the pin. Instead it is the second leaf (with the army wrap) moving compared to the main leaf, and it does it at both ends. U-bolts have just been tensioned so that shouldn't be the problem.
A truck suspension / steering specialist has seen the movement and told me it is not uncommon and not a problem.
I have also considered fitting side washers.

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27 Oct 2016 16:04 #4 by Frank
Frank replied the topic: Springs
John, I also had that, I put it down to the holders that hold the spring pack together had plenty of room in the sides. I bent some steel plate (2mm i think) up and inserted it in each side then bent it over again to wrap around the holder.

Frank & Christine Thomas

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27 Oct 2016 16:23 #5 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: Springs
I was told some time ago that the free play was needed, and that shimming it out could result in spring breakages.
I don't recall who told me, but I do recall that it was someone I trusted.

However, it sure does sound pretty dire!

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27 Oct 2016 17:12 #6 by John and Bronwyn
John and Bronwyn replied the topic: Springs
Paul, I have seen advice on the Net that clearance in the clips is needed.

See: www.suspensionspecialists.com/tech0004.html#9 which specifies that there must be clearance. They specify minimum of 1/16" extra width and 3/32" under the bolt / spacer.

As you say, the movement does not sound good!
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28 Oct 2016 04:31 #7 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Springs
As Paul said there does need to be sideways clearance especially for the second and subsequent leaves otherwise you may end up with breakages.
Having owned and driven leaf sprung Landcruisers for most of my life as well as a variety of other brands they will all clunk especially on tight turns/changes of direction. Often much worse when wet or when the spring pack is freshly assembled and possibly lubricated as the friction between the leaves is less.
Doing the clamps up as firmly as possible should allow sufficient movement for spring operation, don't be tempted to shorten the tube on the bolt. The hammer over clamps just need hammering down occasionally if doing a lot of flexing as they will spread due to spring movement.
There are mixed feelings on lubricating between the leaves, yes it may give a smoother ride and also stop squeaking but as a leaf spring pack relies on the friction between the leaves for its natural damping you could cause the vehicle to have a bouncing action rather than being slightly damped.
If I have spring squeaking problems I jack the vehicle up so the springs are at full droop and spray fishoil between the leaves, leave the vehicle jacked up until the oil dries a bit and then it will provide a tacky surface between the leaves.
But yes the big clunk as the whole spring pack floats side to side on the hangers can be disconcerting but is pretty normal under tight changes of direction and is usually when the U bolts are tightened to spec the second and subsequent leaves in the pack.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 680w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.
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28 Oct 2016 07:25 #8 by John and Bronwyn
John and Bronwyn replied the topic: Springs
Thanks Peter

Nice to have the confirmation that all is OK.

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31 Oct 2016 10:18 #9 by fishing01
fishing01 replied the topic: Springs
Thank you all, I have been waiting for Telstra and NBN hence the late reply, after reading the comments I think I will leave well enough alone.

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31 Oct 2016 20:39 #10 by OKA in Africa
OKA in Africa replied the topic: Springs
Hello,

thanks for adding an interesting possibility were the "clonk" noise during turns is coming from. I still have this noise since I have not done any changes to the spring/shackle/pin components yet.
After greasing the pins the noise is gone for a little while and then comes back.

How to determine if the noise is coming from A) the main leaf spring hitting the shackle OR B) the second/subsequent leaves hitting the shackle?

Thank you and best regards

OKA #327 in Africa
www.oka4wd.com/forum/members-vehicles-pu...47-oka-327-in-africa

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01 Nov 2016 08:20 #11 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Springs
No clonks in #196.

Cheers,
Peter

Cheers, Peter.
OKA196 tinyurl.com/OKA196xtMotorhome
Mob.0428171214

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01 Nov 2016 09:59 #12 by Joseph Baz
Joseph Baz replied the topic: Springs
If you have the hardened lateral thrust washers and spring bushes are ok there should be no clunks, make sure the u bolts nuts are free before torqueing, have seen people believing the torque was correct only to find seized nuts
Cheers, joe

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01 Nov 2016 19:30 #13 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: Springs
What does lateral thrust washers look like??

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02 Nov 2016 07:15 - 02 Nov 2016 07:22 #14 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Springs
Free plug?
These are the ones in the 20mm pin kit I produce.
Each spring end should have either the thick washer or the thin shim (depending on the position) either side of the spring and inside the hanger.

The thin one is 1.6mm quenched spring steel. The thick one is case hardened mild steel.
Ignore the square ones....

Cheers,
Peter

Cheers, Peter.
OKA196 tinyurl.com/OKA196xtMotorhome
Mob.0428171214
Attachments:
Last Edit: 02 Nov 2016 07:22 by Peter_n_Margaret.
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02 Nov 2016 14:22 #15 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Springs

OKA in Africa wrote: Hello,

How to determine if the noise is coming from A) the main leaf spring hitting the shackle OR B) the second/subsequent leaves hitting the shackle?


OIA, with the engine running and the wheels on the ground, get someone to wiggle the steering wheel and watch the front spring shackles. If you've got significant slack (as I had once) you can see the springs moving side to side. (Most likely the main leaf hitting the shackle, especially with the original all-steel components).

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.

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02 Nov 2016 15:31 - 02 Nov 2016 15:46 #16 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Springs

Peter_n_Margaret wrote: Free plug?
Cheers,
Peter


Deserved IMHO. I upgraded 10 of the 12 spring bolts to Peter's 20mm pin system in 2009 and had no more problems with those.

See my other post on what I did for the other 2 bolts.

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.
Last Edit: 02 Nov 2016 15:46 by dandjcr.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Joseph Baz

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10 Mar 2017 10:15 #17 by John and Bronwyn
John and Bronwyn replied the topic: Springs
Going back a few posts to the clunk from the front suspension due to spring leaf movement :

I found that some spring sets have moulded nylon side slippers between the clip and spring pack.

HDPE should be suitable - soft enough to "give" a bit, extremely resistant to abrasion, and very low coefficient of friction. It should be unlikely to jam or wear the leaf. No suitable HDPE in the shed, but some polypropylene. Mechanical properties are very similar to HDPE.

Piece of 3mm sheet tapped between the clip and spring pack, retained by heating the ends and bending. No real loss if it falls out.

Results so far are promising, the clunk is much reduced (confirming where it was coming from) and no sign of any effect on the spring leaves.
The following user(s) said Thank You: DarrenWebster303

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25 May 2019 01:28 #18 by OKA in Africa
OKA in Africa replied the topic: Springs
Dear OKA owners,

after working for 6 weeks every day I finalized the cabin conversion on my OKA. Before and After pictures are attached.

After finishing the works I realized that the OKA is hanging lower on the right rear side. Investigating the problem revealed that the leaf spring bushes are worn.
Where can I get a new set of original size bushes for my OKA LT 327? Please help with advice!

Thanks

Before:



After:

Thank you and best regards

OKA #327 in Africa
www.oka4wd.com/forum/members-vehicles-pu...47-oka-327-in-africa
Attachments:

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25 May 2019 09:40 - 25 May 2019 09:41 #19 by outyonda
outyonda replied the topic: Springs
OKA parts has the 16mm pins & bushes & the upgraded NT 25 mm pins

OKAs 091, 093, 094, 113, 346x6 & 405
Last Edit: 25 May 2019 09:41 by outyonda.

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27 May 2019 10:20 #20 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Springs

OKA in Africa wrote: Dear OKA owners...

Where can I get a new set of original size bushes for my OKA LT 327? Please help with advice!


Machinist mate found mine hiding in a bar of nylon for the rear (shackled end). They had a 7/16 ID by 5/8 OD steel sleeve that had cross drilled holes for the grease.

The fronts were hiding a "steel rubber steel" (SRS), I think a Pajero. They were reamed to 0.4385" and the OD turned down to be ~0.003" and pulled in with threaded rod and some big washers and nuts.
Machinist said SRS remove some road shock/vibration ???

No gaurantees, but maybe useful as ideas.

The Orkot material is made by Trelleborg, but did not seem readily available, and Delrin was pretty pricy.
I thought that the OEM bushes were Orkot?

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