Rust in bottom door panel

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28 Feb 2017 05:58 #2 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
Ours has drain holes in the bottom of the door, while there is some rust between the frame and inner skins it isn't terminal and a yearly dribble of fish oil in the door seems to stop most of the problem.
Most vehicle doors that I've seen are of the design where water is supposed to flow out the bottom.
The biggest problem is that Oka didn't apply any rustroofing or treatment to bare steel or enclosed body sections anywhere in the body building process which is why we now have problems.
Combined with a lack of drain holes in box sections that are sealed and the inevitable moisture from either condensation or leaks is why most Oka's have corrosion problems. We should also remember that they are all probably well past their "designed" lifespan ;-)))

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.
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28 Feb 2017 08:21 #3 by outyonda
outyonda replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
Designed to be rebuilt

A factory stough up, as Peter said, sever lack of rustproofing

The fix!!
Re,skin doors, rust proof & 1/2 in holes to let water out.
OKA parts, exchange poors or skins

OKAs 091, 093, 094, 113, 346x6 & 405
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01 Mar 2017 06:40 - 01 Mar 2017 06:47 #4 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
We have 4 holes in the bottom of our doors, 2 at the high level and 2 at the low level.

The insides of our door panels seem to be covered with a sticky waxy coating, fish oil? maybe sound deadening?

The folded edges of the door (and rear hatch) skins is where most of our rust starts and travels inboard from there. I'm sad to say I just cut out what I can, derust with converter solution (eg Ranex Rustbuster ), paint and and cover/camouflage with thin aluminium sheets.

Our worst rust areas are around the bus rear window frames, gutters and the lower sides of the windscreen surround. I patch things up but the only permanent solution is re-skinning and I don't see that on the horizon.

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
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Last Edit: 01 Mar 2017 06:47 by dandjcr.
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05 Mar 2017 08:14 - 05 Mar 2017 08:28 #5 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
Sikaflex 221 million dollar question, paint first or leave raw metal?????....

To get access I have removed half of the inner door skin to be replaced with a new 2 packed duragal panel.

Have cleaned up door frames which look good except for short corner section in the very bottom corner that has been replaced.

Have also cut out small triangular corner of outer skin and have a new prefolded piece ready to tack in.

I had to unfold a short section of the outer skin from the bottom section of the frame to get access. I have thoroughly cleaned off any surface rust from the inside edge of the skin and from the facing piece of frame and cleaned with rust converter. Both surfaces are now shiney clean.
..I plan to refix the skin along the frame with sikaflex 221 held down with stainless rivets.

I have to rebend the unfolded short section of outer skin around the edge with hammer and dolly.
I would like to paint this bit first because the duragal has been compromised but the paint will likely fracture with the bending.

I will be coating the mating surfaces of the channel and skin thoroughly with sikaflex before riveting.

Question?????..
Should I paint these edges before folding them down but the paint will probably crack with the bending or let the Sikalex adhere directly to seal the unpainted compromised raw metal??

..The outer skin/frame joints will be sealed and repainted thoroughly from the inside and outside after fixing before I sikaflex and rivet the new inner skin on.
Last Edit: 05 Mar 2017 08:28 by Rick Whitworth.

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05 Mar 2017 08:57 #6 by outyonda
outyonda replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
Rick l paint the met al wbith Duragalv before stikeflex

tuch up galv airasol takes a belting with hammer
Rivits are good, avoid spot welds,

David aluminum & galv oxidise together & rust faster
I showed pic,s of #95 with alloy patch ups

OKAs 091, 093, 094, 113, 346x6 & 405
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05 Mar 2017 13:48 #7 by John and Bronwyn
John and Bronwyn replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
A useful guide to what's compatible with what (and what's not) is here:

www.bluescopesteel.com.au/howto/avoid-incompatible-metals

I am unsure of the ones labelled Yes*. I would have thought that at least some of these would be better described as No? (Eg Zincalume / galvanised, and aluminium / galvanised).

I have seen he results of one of the No's - water from copper onto colourbond.
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05 Mar 2017 14:39 #8 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
Rick, I have Sikaflexed to pre-painted surfaces quite successfully after priming (not structural).

I would be painting/protecting the surfaces first to minimise the effects of any retained moisture, since once you bend up and seal the joint you can no longer get at the insides. Can't be too careful.

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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05 Mar 2017 14:40 #9 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
Water from a new zincalume garage roof into colourbond guttering saw the guttering disappear within 12 months.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.
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05 Mar 2017 14:45 #10 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel

outyonda wrote: David aluminum & galv oxidise together & rust faster
I showed pic,s of #95 with alloy patch ups


OYDA thanks, I only put aluminium sheet over a derusted and protected surface/hole, not metal to metal.

It's purely cosmetic.

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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05 Mar 2017 15:35 #11 by Paul and Sue Crompton
Paul and Sue Crompton replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
Hi Guys.

Rick, obviously the best solution is to replace the door panel but you may also open up another can of worms as the frame may also be rusty. In an ideal world that is what you would do. Second best option would be to cut out the rust and weld a new panel in but difficult if you are not a panel beater.

I have found that with surface rust only, which is not too bad, if you sandblast it and coat the inside with a bitumen based rustproofing, what seems to happen is the metal is porous and it seems to absorb the oil out of the bitumen and also the bitumen helps to stop the oxygen getting to the metal. If there is no oxygen, it will not rust and maybe recoating the inside with a bitumen base or fisholene to try to slow it down. There are panel glues which are used now made by 3M which are very strong for gluing steels and also there is a new one by 3M that they are using on new chassis called Impact Resistant Bonding. These come in a 2 pack tube which are about $100 for a small tube but unfortunately you need a special gun to apply it and that is about $400. Obviously the best advice you can get for Sikaflex is to go on their site or ring them for advice. You would also find panel bonding and structural panel bonding on You Tube. I should also make a comment that my trade is panelbeater and spraypainter restoring old cars.

Sikaflex is not designed to be stuck onto paint as it would only be as strong as the paint. When you use Sikaflex you are supposed to use it with Sikaflex primer to promote adhesion. Most people don't as the primer is a lot more expensive than the Sikaflex itself.

Peter, I know you are not supposed to mix different metals together ie aluminium, galvanise or zincalume, however, my house and my garage have a zincalume roof and colourbond gutters for the last 30 years. Touch wood, I have been lucky that they have not deteriorated but I have found over the years that any leaves or debris that go on to zincalume and stay wet for a little while certainly seem to rust out quickly but the colourbond with the leaves seems to resist.

Paul.

Paul Crompton - OKA 168
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06 Mar 2017 05:10 #12 by darren lilly
darren lilly replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
when the factory restores an oka I think I read somewhere that they paint the frame with a ceramic paint before reskinning maybe something like por15. any thoughts on using gyprock glue it sticks to steel frames real good,cheap & easy to apply. citric acid is excellent for removing rust, better than blasting as it soaks into the impossible to reach places. por15 is also flexible so can be bent without cracking
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06 Mar 2017 07:59 #13 by outyonda
outyonda replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
Check out my old post DULUX OVERHAUL

OKAs 091, 093, 094, 113, 346x6 & 405

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06 Mar 2017 11:12 #14 by mort
mort replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
Rick I have to get to mine eventually but having seen 2 now with skin off there is 2 issues.
1. the drain holes needs to be bigger and cleaned out from time to time.
2. it is important to make sure that you use enough sika to ooze out and seal the panel to frame. I see that as one of the biggest problems as moisture gets between panel and stays there.
If you are going to use sika then you dont need to rivet as the sika will give an excellent bond the trick is not to clamp too tight as you squash out all adhesive and the rivets act the same as clamping so then why use an expensive adhesive and use a roof and gutter silicone as you only need a sealer.
Paul is right your top is only as good as the bottom so you may have the best adhesive but if it is stuck to a poor quality paint then its only as good as the paint.
Martyn (its an OKA thing)
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06 Mar 2017 16:43 - 06 Mar 2017 16:45 #15 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel

outyonda wrote: Check out my old post DULUX OVERHAUL


TOO SCARY
Last Edit: 06 Mar 2017 16:45 by Rick Whitworth.
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06 Mar 2017 17:07 - 06 Mar 2017 17:08 #16 by mort
mort replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
Darren working in the building industry I and others have used gyprock adhesive for many things and is sometimes better than liquid nails except it dries slower but doesn't crystallize over time like liquid nails in this case as a water base it will break down with water.
My wife uses lemons to good effect around the house just as a thought we have 2 trees and give away or throw out more lemons than we use maybe I could save the juice and give the whole OKA a bath it might save me a lot of sandpaper.
Martyn (its an OKA thing)
Last Edit: 06 Mar 2017 17:08 by mort.
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09 Mar 2017 13:46 #17 by darren lilly
darren lilly replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
got 2 new coffin panels & a roof delivered yesterday, I was going to use the gyprock glue but will do a bit more checking first. A pro fishing friend used it a long time back to caulk his timber net boats (not kept in the water) but dont dont know the long term outcome but it did last at least a year then they made a mould from them & went to fibreglass. the citric acid is the best rust remover (not converter) I have seen but will destroy some metals, totally turned to sludge. Sorry back to the doors.

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14 Mar 2017 03:32 #18 by darren lilly
darren lilly replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
your right Martyn mate said the glue broke down

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23 Mar 2017 19:54 - 23 Mar 2017 20:11 #19 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
thanks for good advice from all above

Had to rush to get the door finished to be in a useable state by the Labour Day weekend for family's hiking trip (not me!) around Wilson's Prom so I don't have any pics of the door opened up before or during the repair.

OKA camped our free "secret" spot by the old fishermen's sheds at Corner Inlet on Labour Day showing repaired door below...




I cut the interior doorskin along a line just above the level of the bottom of the plastic (fibreglass in my case) door trim and removed the bottom half by drilling/grinding out the spot welds round the lower frame.




The inside of the door turned out to have been slathered in fish oil or some other rust inhibitor and once I got past the red dust inside found all was in perfect condition except the very bottom section which was rusted out (sorry no pics)

The bottom angle section of the frame had to be cut out and a new one folded and welded in. I also had to slice out the very bottom corner of the outer skin and weld in a new piece.




All of the inside of the door skins and frames were thoroughly cleaned, welds and edges of the original duragal coated with Galmet Coldgal then Duragal. Any raw metal was etch primed and then everything primed inside and out with acrylic primer then painted with two pack.
Doorskins were re-assembled using sikaflex 221 (nothing in a tube that I hate more!) and stainless rivets. Rivet holes drilled before painting and painted surfaces to be joined with sikaflex prepped with scotch-brite and prepsol.

The reason for the rust in the first place was inadequate drainage from the bottom section of the door combined with insufficient sikaflex to properly seal between the bottom frame and the door skins. There were two holes in the mid frame allowing water to flow into the bottom section but there were only two holes in the bottom section located as shown with arrows on the repaired door below ..



The hole in the sloping section was useless to allow water to get out and the only other one at the hinge end was very small and partly blocked with dirt. If the OKA was parked uphill water could fill the rear triangle of the bottom section up to 100mm deep!!

There are now four large holes in both the mid frame and bottom frame sections to let water out.

All joints now fully sealed and all surfaces thoroughly painted inside and out.
I also used silicon windscreen sealer at each end of the rubber at the bottom of the window to try to reduce the amount of water getting down into the door as much as possible. This helps but given the design of the door it is impossible to keep it out completely.
Last Edit: 23 Mar 2017 20:11 by Rick Whitworth.
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24 Mar 2017 05:52 #20 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
Excellent job again Rick.

With your panache for excellentness, how would you suggest I dealt with this (once I've done all my other upgrades of course)?



The bottom of the windscreen surround flexes and cracks and eventually rusts out. I derusted/patched and covered it up (5 years ago) but a permanent solution would be preferable.

David

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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24 Mar 2017 08:19 #21 by outyonda
outyonda replied the topic: Rust in bottom door panel
Looks like the roof leaks & water is running down frame

Fix the cause then tackle the problem

OKAs 091, 093, 094, 113, 346x6 & 405

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