Air Cleaner

More
11 Oct 2017 13:00 #1 by mort
mort created the topic: Air Cleaner
Hi All,
I have never been a fan of the Optiair air cleaner because the lid is about 75mm deep and so it sticks out that far or further and it was plastic but the only choice if one went for a Donaldson like the original and metal was at a cost of $800 odd.
I did install one in my Oka as many others did, I am installing a turbo in someone else's Oka but didnt want to use the Optiair so looked around for an alternative and couldn't find one so set about in getting one produced to suit the Oka.
I have now got a sample being made and sent over for testing and checking measurements.
It is all metal with a lid that fixes like the Donaldson with 100mm in and out and a primery and safety filter. the capacity is 900 m3 per hour
The inlet I hope ( if not we can make changes ) will be inline with the snorkel so no need for the S bend which will also cut down on resistance.
I know it is a bit late for the ones who have already done the upgrade but anyone who may be interested let me know.
The indicated cost is in the region of $ 200.00 which is way better than Donaldson and around $75 less than Optiair.
I am also looking at custom made intercooler but not down to final design yet.
Martyn
The following user(s) said Thank You: 210greg

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Oct 2017 06:31 #2 by mort
mort replied the topic: Air Cleaner
The filter has arrived and looks good so now need to fit and see if any mods needed also see who sells the replacement filters for future need, will take some photo's.
Martyn
The following user(s) said Thank You: OKAPETE, Dean and Kaye Howells, MichaelLHession, Harry, Ewart and Vivian Halford, Terry Mclaaren, Tim R, 210greg

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Nov 2017 06:14 #3 by mort
mort replied the topic: Air Cleaner
Hi All, I have started installing into an XT OKA and took some photos.
There is some mods that I will talk to the factory about but all in all I am happy if they couldnt change anything.
The price is not an issue for me but transport even though it came down from where it started I think there is room to move.
I will let you know as things progress.
Martyn
The following user(s) said Thank You: Dean and Kaye Howells, Dave and Pauline Gray, 210greg

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
07 Nov 2017 12:35 - 07 Nov 2017 12:41 #4 by Dean and Kaye Howells
Dean and Kaye Howells replied the topic: Air Cleaner
Hi Mort, do you have 'before' fuel consumption figures for the XT you're installing this in so that a direct before/after comparison can be made ?

On #413's 'maiden run' with the factory standard Cummins and original Oka air filter the fuel consumption was greater than with the Perkins, as cruising speed was increased so did fuel consumption. eg. with the Perkins highway cruising gave around 16.5 l/100Km at an average 90-95 Km/hr. With the Cummins this became 19-19.5 l/100Km. At lower speeds and using 4th instead of 5th better consumption was attained ie. loafing down the Strezleki Track at 75-80 k's got around 16.5 l/100Km.

Early in the trip and sitting on 105 k's and not really paying attention to the fuel gauge I actually ran out of fuel at exactly 450 k's from a full tank. A pretty poor result. Well, that's what shakedown runs are all about I suppose. So after nearly 10,000 K's of trying various cruising speeds and gear combinations I knew pretty well what the fuel consumption was under different circumstances. Unfortunately I couldn't do much about it even though I figured early on that taking the cover off the air cleaner would be a good thing to try but as we were mainly outback off road/dirt road I wasn't game.
The proof of the pudding was the 'home run' down the Calder/Sunraysia Hwy from Mildura to Home, a run of around 720 Km via Ballarat and the Queenscliff/Sorrento ferry.

I removed the air cleaner cover after re fuelling in Mildura and headed south, I changed tanks just south of Ballarat at 500 Km and the improvement in power/driveability was noticeable from the start. We got 16.5 l/100km sitting on 93 km/hr or 1950 rpm on 325/85 R16 Michelin XML's. On the more congested run from here to home (220 Km) we got 16.8 l/100Km. IMO on the more direct Calder Hwy the consumption would have been even better. Even more so with less 'aggressive' tyres.

The point of this 'long winded' story is to point out that the restriction was obviously poor air flow especially the small snorkel diameter standard in the Oka.

I've been waiting for an Acco air cleaner to try but hopefully your solution will be a success so I watch with interest. :)

Deano :)
Last Edit: 07 Nov 2017 12:41 by Dean and Kaye Howells.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
07 Nov 2017 20:13 #5 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Air Cleaner
I don't have any faith in single trip fuel consumption figures, simply because even a slight breeze can affect the results far more than almost any other factor. Add in the effects of even 1kmph speed difference and the margin of error becomes too high to allow meaningful results. 10 tankful figures might be meaningful, but ...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 Nov 2017 10:44 #6 by Dean and Kaye Howells
Dean and Kaye Howells replied the topic: Air Cleaner
You're right in observing that one sandwich does not make a picnic but after having just driven 10,000 Km under varying conditions keeping a very close eye on all variables and the resultant fuel consumption I can definitely say that fuel consumption improved as stated. It won't take me 10 more return trips to Darwin to figure that one out.

The point here is that the restriction in the factory snorkel setup makes a significant difference when air consumption requirements are increased and IMO the air cleaner Martyn is working with could go long way to resolving this issue.

Deano :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 Nov 2017 16:40 #7 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Air Cleaner
" On the more congested run from here to home (220 Km) we got 16.8 l/100Km"

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Nov 2017 06:29 #8 by mort
mort replied the topic: Air Cleaner
Hi Tony,
I read somewhere that you were in Tassie, You will get better fuel consumption for a number of reasons being. you installed the turbo without changing fuel settings so this will give you a leaner mix which unlike a petrol engine a diesel engine can run lean without any detrimental effect but too lean I am not sure. Being in Tassie the air is denser and more humid also colder so in simple terms more power or the same with less pressure on the accelerator all in all better economy.
The opposite is true for the hot dry climates.
Martyn

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Nov 2017 14:38 #9 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Air Cleaner
However Mort, the supply of flat straight roads is extremely limited so .....

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Nov 2017 15:48 #10 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Air Cleaner

mort wrote: Hi Tony,
I read somewhere that you were in Tassie, You will get better fuel consumption for a number of reasons being. you installed the turbo without changing fuel settings so this will give you a leaner mix which unlike a petrol engine a diesel engine can run lean without any detrimental effect but too lean I am not sure.
...
Martyn


Two points:
1) a petrol can be leaned out, and the last few years in F1 that have been fuel limited, so to get a better "Brake Specific Fuel Comsumption" (BFSC) one then needs more air.
(When air restricted and not fuel restricted then adding fuel gets more power at the expense of BSFC.)

The other example is in aircraft... both require running lean of peak (LOP), and most engines are tuned to run rich of peak (ROP). Does does not want to go through the peak to get lean at wide open throttle (WOT) as that is where detonation is most common.

2) However I am not sure how the turbo alone will give a leaner mixture? How is the mixture determined? I assume mechanically, and there is more boost at lower RPM and also that the engine is running boost at cruise?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Nov 2017 18:09 #11 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Air Cleaner
On our diesels with a relatively simple injection system increased boost gives increased fuel, the initial settings can be adjusted but too much fuel increases EGT's which can lead to damage. With the VE pump you can also change the rate at which the fuel is increased relative to revs and boost but basically it is best to optimise airflow both in and out so air cleaner/intake as free as possible and the exhaust the same.
More air means more fuel can be burnt and getting the exhaust away quicker with less restriction gets rid of heat quicker.
The turbo can be changed to a different flow rate and also changed to give boost lower or higher in the rev range.
Fitting an intercooler drops intake air temps which are increased considerably when the turbo compresses the incoming air never mind the heat picked up from the turbo itself and the intake trunking.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 680w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Nov 2017 05:34 #12 by mort
mort replied the topic: Air Cleaner
Tony yes having flat straight roads are ideal but at least the same environmental conditions over a number of runs is impossible to get for testing/comparing so in the end its up to your gut feeling.
Martyn

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Nov 2017 06:10 #13 by mort
mort replied the topic: Air Cleaner
Hi Holmz,
Yes you are correct sort of ... an F1 I cannot comment on as I have no knowledge off except that they go fast and rev at that is ridicules and at the end of each race the engine is stripped down and rebuilt.
Planes on the other hand I have some knowledge off, the idea of running rich or lean is similar to any other engine so on takeoff, climbing or landing so when power is required the pilot will manually set to rich for power but once reaching cruising altitude he will then set to a lean mix, it is based on the cylinder head temp which is the same for the Oka and the reason to install a pyro gauge. On aircraft if you run too lean you will stall and too rich you will seize either way you fall.
Using Tony's as an example we would assume it was tuned to an ideal air/fuel mix so he then installed a new turbo and did nothing else that turbo is now pushing more air in without changing the fuel hence the leaner mix, if he wanted to get max power he would need to reset injector pump.
Martyn

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Nov 2017 06:15 - 12 Nov 2017 06:19 #14 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Air Cleaner
Yes Mort. However there are a lot of costs that I gave up worrying about a long time ago because they are what they are. Want a certain speed out of the OKA, or a certain length of shower twice a day, live in a certain town or even spread a certain thickness of butter and vegemite on one's bread and since there are no alternatives available, the cost is barely alterable no matter what you do, so no point even monitoring it..

Fuel consumption can't be measured accurately in any road test simply because the several variables can't be controlled. Terrain, altitude and direction profile, road surface, wind direction and speed, window open of closed, aircon or heater on or off, electrical load, ambient temperature, tyres, interference from other road users, driver skill and attitude and probably the main one which is how to measure fuel used.
Fuel consuption can be measured to several decimal places using a dynamometer, but of course then the complaint is that it bears little resemblance to real-world situations (the "s" being because everyone's situation will be different)

Gauge shows near to empty ==>>> Switch to the other tank ====>>>> fill the first tank and hand over the credit card. Dollar amount, litres pumped and Odometer reading all irrelevant.

if he wanted to get max power he would need to reset injector pump.

Yes, might even get around to doing it one day - or just screw the adjustment in half a turn as someone suggested.
Last Edit: 12 Nov 2017 06:19 by Tony Lee.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Nov 2017 07:06 #15 by mort
mort replied the topic: Air Cleaner
Tony I agree and the main thing is are you happy with what you have what it costs and where you go etc and this is not just the OKA but anything..if the answer is yes then it is right for you nothing more nothing less.
Martyn

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
12 Nov 2017 07:27 - 12 Nov 2017 08:12 #16 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Air Cleaner
It seems compectually easy to measure it...
One needs a fuel flow to fit he consumption part of fuel consumption.

For the "brake specific" part of BSFC, one needs a power measurement.
Speed and force do it but as mentioned there is tyre pressure wind load etc...
A strain gauge of a shaft or motor mount torque or some "load cell"" can give the force part.

But I agree with your posted 'tautological' conclusion of "it iis what it is", so while it would be technologically interesting who cares.
----
Diesels are a different beast, and the turbos run on engines with 15-20:1 compression ratios.
The thing I hear with petrol engines are that turbos get better mileage because they recover the energy in the heat.
A high compression engine running at WOT at max torque is where the lowest BSFC usually happens.

Any lowering of compresssion, or opening the exhaust value early to get more exhaust heat to spool e turbo, or retarding of the spark to avoid detonation all lower efficiency. Diesels do not work Thi sway, unless there is some gas LPG which iburns more like petrol.

I suppose people must use lambda gauges, but have no clue... I need to GTS it.


What that has to do with airfilters I do not know...
Are the new air filters better?
Last Edit: 12 Nov 2017 08:12 by Holmz.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Nov 2017 07:10 #17 by mort
mort replied the topic: Air Cleaner
Hi All,
New air filter installed and all working as expected.
I have given the elements to a supplier to see if he has or can get the replacement elements if not they are an off the shelf item for the manufacturer so readily available ( in Europe and U.S. ) if not an off shelf item here then maybe if wanted could order say 2 elements as spares for future....wait and see.
Martyn

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
20 Nov 2017 13:19 #18 by mort
mort replied the topic: Air Cleaner
Hi All,
Ok the element is/can be replaced with a Donaldson P130884, P789077, WA1028 or there is other brands that will replace the factory std so no issues.
I am now waiting for a reply to the changes and the final price which will include silicone bends from filter to turbo.
Should not be long now.
Martyn
The following user(s) said Thank You: OKAPETE, Dave and Pauline Gray, John and Bronwyn, 210greg

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
07 Dec 2017 07:27 #19 by mort
mort replied the topic: Air Cleaner
Hi All,
I have received from the factory confirmation of the changes which they can do except one that being the inlet at the front in line with the snorkel, the reason is the air flow inside the housing will change and affect performance so still at the back like normal but for ease of installation it is rotated to the left where there is more room.
The final price is $361.00
This is made up of Filter $181.00
Silicone fittings from filter to turbo $35.00
Transport $145.00
The filter all metal is a good price, the silicone bends x 5, I had to purchase for the filter that I just put in and 1 bend cost $40.00 in Perth. The shipping started at US$230.00 to which I told them it was a deal breaker and quoted what I was paying for turbos which are heavier but smaller so went to a number of shipping agents to get it down and its not the weight but size.

I have got a number of pre orders and although there is a minimum I dont believe that the price will change for larger orders.
If you want silicone bends for intercooler let me know and it can be added into the box.
So the time has come for all interested to confirm on the site, private message, email ( This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. ) or phone ( 0414632270 )
Martyn
The following user(s) said Thank You: Terry Mclaaren, 210greg

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Dec 2017 08:24 #20 by mort
mort replied the topic: Air Cleaner
Hi All,
Over the last week I have had a number of Phone calls or emails regarding ordering the filters and with a few questions as they are similar questions I thought I would put up some with my answers/comments.
Do I need to change my filter.
Short answer no but if you want to get the best performance and economy from your engine then yes.Its like when you go for a walk breathing is normal and steady but pick up the pace and you not only burn up your energy reserves but you need more air, restrict the air and you dont do too well.
Will the filter be big enough for a 6BT or similar.
Yes it was sized to suit any upgrades that has or may happen.
Is it an easy fit and install.
Yes I dont like complicated or hard, basic tools ie tape measure and pencil, tin-snips left and right hand, angle grinder, drill spanners and screw driver is about all.
If I had an old one from a truck is it ok.
Yes if it can fit in the space and is bigger than std why not.
I did go looking at the truck wreckers when I did this last turbo install and only found 1 that would have worked, it was from an ACCO and was a Donaldson so mounting brackets were similar it was a little bigger than std oka and sized for a 160 HP. They wanted $220.00 for it the biggest problem was that it only had a single filter which would be ok if staying on bitumen but the owner wanted 2 filters add the cost of cleaning and painting and new filters why bother.
There is a lot more truck wreckers in the eastern states so maybe you will have better luck finding a duel filtered one at a reasonable price that wont be too difficult to fit.
The other thing to consider is that old also means it may miss out on features and certainly one is if you look at one of the photos above you will just see some vanes/fins inside at the back this is to allow the air to spiral around and cover the entire filter but also any dust or water can be thrown to the edge away from the filter.
Is there any other advantage in having a larger filter.
Other than allowing the engine to have as much air as it needs without struggling a bigger filter means if you are in a dusty environment it will take a lot longer to clog up.
Any other questions just ask.
Martyn
The following user(s) said Thank You: 210greg

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Powered by Kunena Forum