CSR Permit

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30 Mar 2019 15:35 #2 by nugget
nugget replied the topic: CSR Permit
I just applied for and got a permit to do the CSR in 050 in June no problem. It went through on the auto apply... specified the vehicle as an OKA Motorhome.

They also * trailers but they don't refuse the permit fee on those either.

Pity we will not catch up on the track.

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30 Mar 2019 17:28 #3 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: CSR Permit
Unless it has changed larger vehicles than your average 4wd ie:Oka's and larger and vehicles towing weren't allowed on the bottom of the CSR below well 5 from memory.
That was always the case back in the 90's and into the 20's as that section utilises station tracks and the properties wouldn't allow larger vehicles on their tracks, as I said I've no knowledge of current restrictions if any.
Given that there are commercial groups using 6wd Mercedes it may not be the case anymore. As it says on the permit page best contact the stations involved before you head out.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 680w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

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31 Mar 2019 06:35 #4 by nugget
nugget replied the topic: CSR Permit
The permits only cover to well 5.

At that point you enter Cunyu Station and have to obey the follow rules.



I would argue the OKA is not a wide track vehicle but if worse came to worse, they give the alternatives. Generally if people are reasonable, doing the right things and not being idiots, the station people are pretty reasonable. Missing the last couple of wells is hardly a train smash as the if that is what it came to. Be more than happy to have done the rest.
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31 Mar 2019 07:45 #5 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: CSR Permit
When we traversed the CSR in 1992 we were the first group north to south for that year and the first for a few months in either direction as it had been very wet from March through to May that year and too wet for travel below well 9. We had to exit via well 9 through Glen Ayle and out to Carnegie as the bottom section was under water.
As it was we didn't have permission to travel through Glen Ayle until we left Durba after a lengthy RFDS discussion (no satphones then!) with the Wards on Glen Ayle as their country and tracks were also under water at the time but we were given the ok as long as there was no further rain. They also realised that once we left Durba we couldn't turn around as we wouldn't have enough fuel.
The western end of the Gunbarrel into Wiluna was also closed due to flooding so we had to refuel at Carnegie and then head south down to Sandstone and then down to Leonora. We were the first on that section of road for several months as well, some of the washaways were deeper than the troopy was high and mates travelling behind reckoned we disappeared out of sight in some of them.
I've not looked at rainfall maps but that last cyclone might have dampened some of it a bit.
We still reckon the CSR was one of the best trips we ever did and having been back across bits of it since we're glad we did it back then before it became a corrugated track with endless traffic. At times we drove through 2m high spinifex for days due to the lack of traffic for several months after the rain and with lots of water around it was pretty special with most lakes and claypans having some moisture with the associated explosion of wildlife.
We still haven't been south of well 9 though and probably never will with the Oka not being allowed on that section. below 5.
No permits or fees back then either, no signage except the Gards markers at each well and I would recommend getting a copy of the Gard's book on the stock route as it has a wealth of info and history as well as strip maps of each section.
The Canning Stock Route A Travellers Guide by Ronelle and Eric Garde, we had the first edition as it had just come out at the time but it has been out of print for a while I think it might still be available either secondhand. or it might have been reprinted at one stage.
The only maps in those days were their strip maps and the Australian Geographic Map which was one of the first they did so we navigated with a single channel GPS and lots of 1:25k topo maps if we had to make detours around flooded sections.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 680w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

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31 Mar 2019 08:33 - 31 Mar 2019 08:37 #6 by outyonda
outyonda replied the topic: CSR Permit

nugget wrote: The permits only cover to well 5.

At that point you enter Cunyu Station and have to obey the follow rules.



I would argue the OKA is not a wide track vehicle but if worse came to worse, they give the alternatives. Generally if people are reasonable, doing the right things and not being idiots, the station people are pretty reasonable. Missing the last couple of wells is hardly a train smash as the if that is what it came to. Be more than happy to have done the rest.


Cunyu station has new owners now, the bloke that was a P I A is long gone, the sign stands & OKA's are fine, I have been through there several times with both owners .

Respect, contact the station.

The Canning Stok Route is A public access STOK ROUTE, 50 miles wide, the permits are free !!

OKAs 091, 093, 094, 113, 346x6 & 405
Last Edit: 31 Mar 2019 08:37 by outyonda.

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31 Mar 2019 13:23 #7 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: CSR Permit
The problem is Brett that the current vehicle track diverts from the actual CSR gazetted route out into native title land so they now have their hand in it.
There was a project run back in the early 90's to actually get the vehicle track back on the actual CSR reserve but as it relied on travellers/volunteers to drag a steel frame to knock the worst of the bumps off and then following traffic to establish the "new" route it didn't work very well. A few short changes were established and form part of the current track but not enough to miss the native title lands.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 680w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

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31 Mar 2019 17:52 #8 by Dean and Kaye Howells
Dean and Kaye Howells replied the topic: CSR Permit
The problem at the south end of the CSR was Cunya Ken, a self declared little Hitler who ruled the roost managing the pastoral lease at the bottom end of the CSR.

He was (is) basically one of those eccentric FIGJAM types that bent the rules for his own power appetite and didn't understand the difference between a pastoral lease with obligations in maintaining CSR access and freehold land. He used to have all these silly signs up saying no night time travel, no large vehicles, no trailers etc and got away with it for years. Hated OKA's with a passion. Don't even go into the desecration and moving of the original station buildings etc. His loss (hopefully) will be a boon to any and all 4WD access on the CSR.

Originally CSR 'permits' were managed by a mob called 4WD Australia or something similar which was really nothing but a group of two or three blokes working out of Sydney I think. Basically a money making scam with their 'Group' now basically disowned by the legit 4WD movement. All very complex.

No idea where it all stands today with all this native title 'opportunism' going on but you can bet your boots that if there's a quid in it 'white fella' lawyers will be as thick as fleas on a dogs carcass bleeding the system for all it's worth.

If it means a quid and opportunity for the local communities then I'm all for it but am cynical as to who will come out on top here.

If Cunya Ken has 'moved on' then IMO it can only be a good thing for CSR travelers in the future. :)

Deano :)
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01 Apr 2019 15:01 #9 by nugget
nugget replied the topic: CSR Permit
Well having parted with my $350 permit fee, I will be keen to do as much as possible.

Generally experience has been that permits never get checked. One trip I required 19 permits and never checked.... not once. Might be different in the OKA..the big bluey is probably a bit harder to miss than a white 130 :lol:

Let you know how we go end of June some time.

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02 Apr 2019 04:25 #10 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: CSR Permit
The Bluey work looks like it is coming along.
Give a hoy if you come through the centre.
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03 Apr 2019 01:59 - 03 Apr 2019 02:03 #11 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: CSR Permit
When we did the CSR, we did get a permit, but I understood that all that got us was the ability to detour to the springs and other than that, the whole of the CSR was public access track requiring no permits. The one possible 8exception was the top section but permits weren't enforced if you were heading north, and in any case didn't apply if you stuck to the road.
We spoke to a retired WA government chief surveyor and he was quite scathing og lease holders who pretended legal rights they didn't have because conditions of their lease only applied to grazing rights, not total access for other reasons.

"Generally experience has been that permits never get checked. One trip I required 19 permits and never checked.... not once. Might be"

Not to be counted on in SA parks though. One yobbo in our group was mouthing off on the radio about lack of passes and pretty soon we were stopped by rangers and all vehicles were checked.
Last Edit: 03 Apr 2019 02:03 by Tony Lee.

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03 Apr 2019 04:08 #12 by nugget
nugget replied the topic: CSR Permit
That;s right, it can not be counted on which is why I do the right thing and get permits. The one time was on a west to east Simpson crossing the week before the Races......figure that there would be so many people crossing it was worth getting out of bed!

It really doesn't matter but I must admit I get a bit pee'd off being made to often jump through hoops, pay extortion fees...like $350 for the CSR....and then no bludger can be bothered checking. Whilst I am happy not to be harassed, still feel a bit ripped off I must admit. :)

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03 Apr 2019 06:07 - 03 Apr 2019 06:09 #13 by outyonda
outyonda replied the topic: CSR Permit
Gazetted roads through Parsteral Leases are open to the public BUT access to station & tracks requires permission & trespassing law's apply.
When I plan TREK's I spend hours on PH talking to Stations for permission & RESPECT, [ even Cunya Ken ]
I like to know who is going through my back yard !!

Permits are ONE call to Aboriginal Land Councel;: cost free permits all states.

OKAs 091, 093, 094, 113, 346x6 & 405
Last Edit: 03 Apr 2019 06:09 by outyonda.

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03 Apr 2019 10:11 #14 by nugget
nugget replied the topic: CSR Permit
Last time I did the Anne Beadell there were 3 or 4 for that alone...may have changed in more recent times.

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04 Apr 2019 14:41 #15 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: CSR Permit
"Permits are ONE call to Aboriginal Land Councel;: cost free permits all states"

Hay River Road, at least one Survey peg are serious money. And of course Canning Stock Route.

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05 Apr 2019 04:37 #16 by nugget
nugget replied the topic: CSR Permit
Yep. Did the Hay River in August and $'s for the permit, camping and tours all cash but no one there even though we had nominated our arrival day.

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20 Apr 2019 13:45 #17 by travisg
travisg replied the topic: CSR Permit
ive done the complete Csr 18 times so far, only once in a car, the rest in over 4500kg stuff. I never had a problem after a few chats to the landholders and only attempting it in dry conditions. ive eels helped with well reconstruction etc which allowed a few groups to see that a truck can do less damage than a car if driven correctly and carry equipment safely. as long as you get you tyre pressure right for the dunes you can walk up them especially with the wombat holes others leave!

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20 Apr 2019 16:56 #18 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: CSR Permit

travisg wrote: ive done the complete Csr 18 times so far, only once in a car, the rest in over 4500kg stuff. I never had a problem after a few chats to the landholders and only attempting it in dry conditions. ive eels helped with well reconstruction etc which allowed a few groups to see that a truck can do less damage than a car if driven correctly and carry equipment safely. as long as you get you tyre pressure right for the dunes you can walk up them especially with the wombat holes others leave!


What pressures are you running?
(And what size tyres?)

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20 Apr 2019 17:02 #19 by travisg
travisg replied the topic: CSR Permit
Each times it’s been. Bit different, however no matter how low I’ve gone I have never de beaded a Tyre and I go way below what many people recommend. It’s. Balancing act going low without too much exposure of side walls. I normally run about 40 psi from well 1 to 10 and then drop to around 20. From there if I don’t feel i’m Getting enough tracking i’ll Drop 2psi until I find the sweet spot that I can be in first gear high range and just walk it up without working to hard but in the sweet spot for revs
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20 Apr 2019 18:16 #20 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: CSR Permit

travisg wrote: Each times it’s been. Bit different, however no matter how low I’ve gone I have never de beaded a Tyre and I go way below what many people recommend. It’s. Balancing act going low without too much exposure of side walls. I normally run about 40 psi from well 1 to 10 and then drop to around 20. From there if I don’t feel i’m Getting enough tracking i’ll Drop 2psi until I find the sweet spot that I can be in first gear high range and just walk it up without working to hard but in the sweet spot for revs


So somewhere in the 13-20 psi range?

I am running 255/100 16 (XZL).
I assume that this would apply to me too?

Or what tyres are you running?
(And is more tread-width needed for the CSR?)

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20 Apr 2019 18:43 #21 by travisg
travisg replied the topic: CSR Permit
ive run both 19.5s and a canter with dual 7.50r16s. I actually thought the canter had more traction on sand dunes, but thats a personal feeling not scientific proof. its super easy to let tyres down and takes very little effort. the main thing on the canning is whenever you stop have a feel of the side walls and make sure they aren't getting too hot form flexing too much or the Psi is too low. I personally don't like saying x psi is THE right thing as there are many factors like load, speed, sand temp, sand moisture content, wombat holes and more. the thing that told me it was right was the ability to not have the foot flat to the floor and be travelling up without kicking up any sand. when you get the real sweet spot you'll drive u easy and even have the ability to accelerate up the dune above the normal speed, thats when you know you have it right

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