Icy OKA

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10 Aug 2019 05:00 #2 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Icy OKA
We've had a similar experience at similar temps, water being the biggest problem and didn't try starting until temps had reached up to around zero at 10am as our 6BT unlike others doesn't like starting at all when cold.
I've hooked up the Webasto Thermotop to the engine cooling system so that in the future it might start easier when cold. Ours being a genset engine doesn't have an intake heater.
Turning the diesel air heater on at around the 2am "pee" time and running it on a low setting makes things much more livable.
Do you sleep with the poptop down?
Peter

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

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10 Aug 2019 08:06 #3 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Icy OKA
Imagine in the cold of the great white north (Canada).
They do make windscreen washer failed that has antifreeze in it...
Another trick if the snow is forecast is to out a tarp over the windscreen to keep the snow from melt-freezing on it.

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10 Aug 2019 15:37 #4 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Icy OKA
Almost all of my water system is inside the living area except only a short run to the shower which is well insulated with a heat strip just in case it does freeze.
Also Webasto is piped to the engine as Peter mentioned.

Went to all that trouble expecting to take it to south America so it was all for nothing - although the Perkins appreciates a warm start when it is frosty.

Tony

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10 Aug 2019 16:08 #5 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Icy OKA

Peter and Sandra OKA 374 wrote: Do you sleep with the poptop down?

always put the poptop down if it is snowing.
Every season I have thought about :) modifying the Shkouda design by adding rope tracks round the top edge of the poptop frame to take short tarps to cover the scissor lifts, sock and gutter all the way round and have clips around the roof above windows to hold them down. Could add extra clips further down to save taking them off and hold them in when the top is down driving around in the snow.
Never get round to it but on balance it does not snow that often.
I am skiing at Perisher, and Thredbo Diggings is a perfect free camp only 5 mins from the ski tube which is included in my season ticket.
I also camp at a "secret" free camp close to Jindabyne below the snowline if it looks like it is going to snow. Saves putting the top down and is only half hour from the ski tube.
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10 Aug 2019 16:26 #6 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Icy OKA

Tony Lee wrote: Almost all of my water system is inside the living area except only a short run to the shower which is well insulated with a heat strip just in case it does freeze.
Also Webasto is piped to the engine as Peter mentioned.

Went to all that trouble expecting to take it to south America so it was all for nothing - although the Perkins appreciates a warm start when it is frosty.

All of my plumbing is inside including the sink, shower, hot water service and mains pressure connection. The only exception of course is the short external connections from the two tanks to the pump. You would assume these would freeze, however they never give any trouble if I keep the hot water system and the diesel heater running.

Yes the Perk likes it to be preheated.
...Neighbouring campers let out lusty cheer when it finally caught after much smokey belching on one morning when I did not

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10 Aug 2019 21:03 #7 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Icy OKA

Tony Lee wrote: Almost all of my water system is inside the living area except only a short run to the shower which is well insulated with a heat strip just in case it does freeze.
Also Webasto is piped to the engine as Peter mentioned.

Went to all that trouble expecting to take it to south America so it was all for nothing - although the Perkins appreciates a warm start when it is frosty.


Tony,
Please tell of the modifications for cold weather?....

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17 Aug 2019 11:04 #8 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Icy OKA
One relatively easy mod to ensure easier starting in really cold conditions would be to fit a heater element in the air intake. The Perkins has a big threaded plug in the intake intended for that purpose so the element must be available.

Are you asking about mods for the engine, or the living quarters

Tony

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17 Aug 2019 22:07 #9 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Icy OKA

Tony Lee wrote: One relatively easy mod to ensure easier starting in really cold conditions would be to fit a heater element in the air intake. The Perkins has a big threaded plug in the intake intended for that purpose so the element must be available.

Are you asking about mods for the engine, or the living quarters


I am aware of fuel heaters and also the manifold job.
(But where does one get the manifold heater from?)

So I was think more of the water for the living quarters. And how one keeps it from icing up?

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18 Aug 2019 04:47 #10 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Icy OKA
Keep as much of the plumbing as possible inside the cabin area and insulate anything underneath will usually be ok for Oz.
Here in Oz it doesn't really get cold enough to freeze tanks especially if the vehicle has been driven and everything has warmed up but sitting at sub zero temps with no heating for several days will lead to things freezing well in sub zero temps.
Here in Oz the sun usually comes out at some stage to warm things up unlike overseas where temps can be sub zero for months and tanks need to be heated or be in the heated cabin and if unused need to be winterised and drained.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

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18 Aug 2019 08:48 #11 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Icy OKA
We overnighted on the Great Central Plateau in Tassi and the outside pipes froze.
There was no damage but the only water we had for morning coffee was what we had in the fridge.
It thawed out by mid morning.

Cheers,
Peter

Cheers, Peter.
OKA196 tinyurl.com/OKA196xtMotorhome
Mob.0428171214
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18 Aug 2019 09:09 #12 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Icy OKA
Our coldest last year was at Mt Moffatt in central QLD, -7 C but apparently according to the locals it holds the lowest ever recorded Qld temp of -17C . Yes everything froze three mornings in a row and by the third morning we had it down pat, everything outside froze, even split the brass ball valve on the external tap.
But we filled the jug before going to bed so had water for a cuppa and as soon as the diesel heater got going after about half an hour it thawed everything underneath with the heat from its exhaust.
Starting the 6BT was another mission as mine doesn't like cold starts at all and after a quite a few reluctant starts out west this year I've hooked the Webasto Thermotop into the heater circuit to enable engine preheating on cold mornings as well as giving us cabin heat before we drive away.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

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19 Aug 2019 08:27 #13 by Harry
Harry replied the topic: Icy OKA
For you that own 6bt cummins with problems starting in cold climates this is what you need it is an easy fix for those that bought 6bt cummins from Paul will already have this as he bought all his engines from Canada which also have a motor warmer that warms the engine via 240 plug on the drivers side of the 6bt both these items can be bought on eBay cheers

Oka 045 the WIDE Motorhome 6bt cummins 500 watt solar diesel heating gas cooking up grade LSD front and rear diffs to 4:56 from 4:88 . 320 lt fuel 153 lt fresh water in 3 separate tanks 3 house batteries 1 start battery 176 lt upright fridge/freezer Black dog security
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19 Aug 2019 13:01 #14 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Icy OKA

Harry wrote: For you that own 6bt cummins with problems starting in cold climates this is what you need it is an easy fix for those that bought 6bt cummins from Paul will already have this as he bought all his engines from Canada which also have a motor warmer that warms the engine via 240 plug on the drivers side of the 6bt both these items can be bought on eBay cheers


I have only seen those in 115v in North America.
A 220v north american unit would work with 240v just dandy though.

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19 Aug 2019 13:48 #15 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Icy OKA
Except that as Holmz said they are usually 110v and when you want it there isn't any mains power anyway.
most of the Dodge engines had heaters in the intake but most don't hook them up here in Oz.
The diesel Thermotop heats the coolant and in turn the engine up nicely to normal operating temps and I've aimed its exhaust at the sump so it will warm the oil as well. The best bit is though that the cabin heater is pushing out warm air before you even start the engine to drive off.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

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19 Aug 2019 13:50 #16 by Harry
Harry replied the topic: Icy OKA
Hi Holzm
This is the one that you are thinking about which goes into the side of the block on the drivers side ....
The other one which is a square one is run by 12 volt or 24 volt and is situated under the cross over pipe from the turbo to the inlet manifold

Oka 045 the WIDE Motorhome 6bt cummins 500 watt solar diesel heating gas cooking up grade LSD front and rear diffs to 4:56 from 4:88 . 320 lt fuel 153 lt fresh water in 3 separate tanks 3 house batteries 1 start battery 176 lt upright fridge/freezer Black dog security
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13 Jul 2021 08:36 #17 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Icy OKA
So much for the bedroom views...



stuck back in the driveway with Kozy NP passes, free camp bookings and season ski tube and lift tickets, ....all dressed up with no where to go...



Hotham from Victoria Falls no where near as much fun as Perisher from Thredbo Diggins

Condolences, best wishes and thanks to all those doing it hard in NSW lockdown. You are doing the right thing, you WILL win, it just takes time.
The following user(s) said Thank You: 210greg, Holmz

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27 Jul 2021 19:03 - 27 Jul 2021 19:07 #18 by Tins
Tins replied the topic: Icy OKA
Fantastic! I have to ask though, are ladder chains still legal? They are not on commercial bus operations, where diamond are required.

Not picking a fight, just asking. I drove bus and coach operations to Hotham and Buller, with others, for years. We were banned from using ladder style chains.

OKA #74
Last Edit: 27 Jul 2021 19:07 by Tins.

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28 Jul 2021 06:23 #19 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Icy OKA
Why is that Tins? Do they damage the road or something?

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28 Jul 2021 09:10 #20 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Icy OKA

Tins wrote: I drove bus and coach operations to Hotham and Buller, with others, for years. We were banned from using ladder style chains.

Hi Tins,
yep, you are right, this has been an understandable bone of contention for almost the 50+ yrs I have been travelling to the snowfields.
I made up the ladder set (which I prefer in mud) for the OKA out of 27m of 6mm gal chain because my diamond pattern set is too small for my 305/70 19.5's and they were too good to chop up.
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28 Jul 2021 11:48 - 28 Jul 2021 14:15 #21 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Icy OKA

Alister McBride wrote: Why is that Tins? Do they damage the road or something?

G,day Alister
Mountain staff hate ladder chains because they cause havoc if they are not properly fitted whereas diamond chains are more forgiving



It is easy to get ladder chains inside out when they are stored. The whole chain can pass through one of the gaps which causes a kink where the cross link attaches to the surrounding chain so that the chain will not sit flat on the tyre. This can happen multiple times for each gap and only way to fix it is to repeatedly re-feed the chain back through each gap. No fun in the snow!
Also, although NOT recommended it can be possible to get away with diamonds running slightly loose whereas ladders are a problem if they are not tight.
This has led to the following definition on section 23 p24 of the Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations 2020:

wheel chains mean devices made up of chains in a diamond pattern that are designed to be fitted to wheels of a motor vehicle to increase the directional stability and traction of the wheels of that vehicle on a road affected by snow or ice.

Ladder chains are still available for hire and purchase. Requirements for fitting chains are defined under the Act but the interpretation comes down to snow and road conditions and the nature of the vehicle. I have never been stopped in a 4wd with/without chains or a 2wd with chains if they are operating and properly fitted whether they be ladder or diamond.

I do not like to use chains on the OKA on well formed roads in the snow. I much prefer to let the tyres right down if necessary, even in deep snow. I have been waived through in the OKA, even when other 4wds have been fitting chains.

I have my chains as a heavy (20kg for the pair) insurance policy against that slimy fine soft mud found on the unformed tracks around our rivers and high country in winter.. The OKA is deadly on this stuff. The heavy ladder chains work well whereas lighter diamond chains clog up (although you can buy heavy gauge diamonds). Some say the diamonds give better lateral traction but that has not been my experience, it all depends on the gauge of the chain and the distance between the cross links.
I also have them to satisfy any official requirement to carry chains.

I purchased my OKA from Charlottes Pass where originally there were 3 OKAs ferrying visitors over snow from Perisher to the Resort. They had heavy ladder chains specially fitted to all 4 wheels to clear the drag link, steering arms and knuckles. They were fitted by inflating the tyres inside the chains and changed by changing wheels. I tried to get a set but they would not part with them. I would never fit standard chains to the front wheels. (but then I have never taken a front wheel drive into the mud or to the snow :))
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Last Edit: 28 Jul 2021 14:15 by Rick Whitworth.
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