Insuring an OKA

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19 Nov 2020 08:29 #1 by Cuppa
Cuppa created the topic: Insuring an OKA
I have searched, but found nothing recent.
I am in the process of purchasing OKA #356 (a motorhome) & yesterday began looking for insurance. It seems that few insurance companies even know what an OKA is!

The two whom I have found who do are Ken Tame (CMCA) & Club 4x4.

Are there others whom folk are currently using, with agreed value comprehensive cover? If so who?

Also having used Club 4x4 for the past few years for our Patrol & Tvan (& seen the premiums rise almost exponentially , with no claims & 'auto' annual decrease in agreed value) primarily for their optional remote area recovery cover (pay up first then claim back) I wonder how fellow remote area travellers manage remote area breakdown/accident? Do you just have sufficient funds available to cover the cost of remote area recovery & hope not to need it, or have you found any other insurance company which offers remote area recovery?
Thanks
Cuppa

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19 Nov 2020 09:35 #2 by Greg Boyle
Greg Boyle replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
Shanons insure the oka
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19 Nov 2020 14:41 #3 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
I am insured with Ken Tame for damage and replacement up to an agreed figure set by Independent valuation.
The policy does not include recovery.
Ken Tame does does offer additional Roadside Assistance but it is what it says and relatively useless
It only applies if the vehicle is within a service area

service area: an area or location in mainland Australia,Tasmania and Phillip Island that is trafficable by a two wheel drive recovery vehicle or islands that are accessible by a two wheel drive vehicular bridge (excludes ferries)

I have never bothered
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19 Nov 2020 18:21 - 19 Nov 2020 18:31 #4 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
We are insured with Ken Tame via CMCA. In 2018 we had a $90,000 claim which from the insurance point of view was completely painless.
It is an agreed value policy and I get an independent valuation every 2 years to maintain the value. It is currently insured for $160,000. Base premium is about 1.1% of agreed value. Better value than that is unlikely I reckon.

Regarding recovery. Consider it as 2 very different types.
1. Mechanical breakdown.
There are several options to fix a "broken" vehicle.....
a) Patch it and limp out. How long it takes is of no consequence.
b) Flat tow by your mates to somewhere a flat top can get you or repairs can be made (ask Peter & Sandra who were flat towed 200km from the NW corner of SA in the GVD to Oak Valley Community and then a flat top from there to Adelaide for repairs. They got a couple of contributions for the flat top cost from their road service organisation).
c) Get a mechanic and the parts & tools to the vehicle. My local mechanic says he will come and fix us anywhere (for a price) never tested but likely to be cheaper than shifting the vehicle to the mechanic.
d) Get the parts and fix it where it is. We did this in the Simpson in 2017 when we broke a rear axle. Paul Nott posted the axle to Brisbane (5 days) and Julian went and got it (3 days). Repairs took 15 minutes. The extra time in the desert was great.

We carry our own mechanical breakdown risk. I went with Club 4x4 for 1 year a few years back. I really did not like the cover fine print They recover you to a "town", not to where you want to go. So if you are in the western Simpson, you go to Oodnadatta which is useless, and you go past Mt Dare where repairs might have been effected. Maybe it has changed but it all left me very wary.

2. Accident breakdown (includes anything that the insurance covers - roll over, impact with terrain, tree etc, hitting washout....).
I am reliably informed that this is the comprehensive insurance companies problem. Even if they write the vehicle off, they still have to remove it. Then, depending on the damage you might buy back the wreck.

Cheers,
Peter

Cheers, Peter.
OKA196 tinyurl.com/OKA196xtMotorhome
Mob.0428171214
Last Edit: 19 Nov 2020 18:31 by Peter_n_Margaret.
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20 Nov 2020 03:20 #5 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
Birdsville Pete ;-))))

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

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20 Nov 2020 06:28 #6 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Insuring an OKA

Peter and Sandra OKA 374 wrote: Birdsville Pete ;-))))

Ta.... :whistle: :whistle:
Cheers,
Peter

Cheers, Peter.
OKA196 tinyurl.com/OKA196xtMotorhome
Mob.0428171214

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20 Nov 2020 06:36 - 20 Nov 2020 07:02 #7 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Insuring an OKA

Peter_n_Margaret wrote: ...I get an independent valuation every 2 years to maintain the value. It is currently insured for $160,000. Base premium is about 1.1% of agreed value. Better value than that is unlikely I reckon.

I have the same arrangement but $120,000 agreed value. I find that every 2 yrs I have done enough pm, mods or additions to be able to easily justify the value.

Regarding recovery. Consider it as 2 very different types.
1. Mechanical breakdown.
There are several options to fix a "broken" vehicle.....

totally agree
with an OKA you always have plan B or even C,D,E with a much better chance than any other motorhome of getting the wheels turning to limp out esp for a well maintained and provisioned OKA in the hands of someone who knows their truck. Your Simpson experience is a great example, even better these days with intelligent trackers, sat phone or HF

2. Accident breakdown (includes anything that the insurance covers - roll over, impact with terrain, tree etc, hitting washout....).
I am reliably informed that this is the comprehensive insurance companies problem. Even if they write the vehicle off, they still have to remove it. Then, depending on the damage you might buy back the wreck.

..the reason for paying to have a high agreed value. I reckon it is as much about how remotely you travel as what it would cost you to replace what you have got with equal capability.

Cheers,
Peter

Last Edit: 20 Nov 2020 07:02 by Rick Whitworth. Reason: can't spell aggreed ..it's the alz eye mers!!

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20 Nov 2020 11:01 - 20 Nov 2020 11:04 #8 by Cuppa
Cuppa replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
Well interesting results to my enquiries to Ken Tame & Club 4x4. (I excluded Shannons who clearly state that they will not cover a vehicle driven into water - seemingly black & white - regardless of whether the claim is for water damage as I understood it).

I sought quotes for an agreed value of $115k.
Age 63, rural area, had a 'Lifetime rating 1' prior to going to Club 4x4 several years ago (who don't do NCB, but have had no claims or convictions since).

Ken Tame - $1988.50 + CMCA membership $1200 basic excess Rating 1 NCB
Club 4x4 $ 1120 + $66 admin fee. $1200 basic excess.

Quite a difference!
Adding $15k remote area recovery cover to Club 4x4 adds $300 to premium, (still $500 less than Ken Tame)

Whatever insurance we choose we will retain our top level roadside assistance with RACV. Peter, my understanding of the remote area recovery taking you 'to the nearest town' as you suggest is an outdated incorrect interpretation. Club 4x4 published something about that a while back. They advise retaining RAC cover & suggest that in the event of remote area recovery being required that you use their cover to get you to a location where RAC cover can take over.

What blew me away was the answer to the question I posed to Club 4x4. "Currently I have our Patrol & Tvan insured with you on a combined policy with a total agreed value of $83k, but the premium is almost $2000, how is it you can offer me a premium for so much less on the higher agreed value for the OKA?"

The answer - "Nissan Patrols have a higher 'risk profile', we get a lot more claims on them".
I guess that's a benefit of owning a relatively uncommon vehicle like an OKA - obviously not considered to be a 'hoonmobile' like a Patrol! :)

Because we have the existing policy with Club 4x4 , they can commence a policy for me from the date I pick up the OKA next month, & pro rata it to run until the existing policy comes up for renewal in March. With multi policy discounts applied the cost to me is just $176, & requires me only to advise them by email of the date I want it to run from. Seems a no-brainer regardless of whether we take out the optional remote area recovery.
Last Edit: 20 Nov 2020 11:04 by Cuppa.

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20 Nov 2020 11:31 #9 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
I have used both Ken Tame and Club 4X4 in the past but got fed up with both of them. If yours is registered as a motorhome, you might try CIL insurance - they only do motorhomes. I have never made a claim so can't comment, but otherwise I find quick and efficient. No recovery though, but having tried Ken Tames twice, I am not sure how much value it has.
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20 Nov 2020 11:47 #10 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
I had quite a lot of correspondence with Club 4X4 before deciding that I would not stay there.
I also came across this, dated 8/2/18.

From today onwards, all new business policies and all renewals generated will include this new excess. The excess will consist of a $2000 flat amount, with 5% of the total sum insured on top. So if you drive a vehicle that’s insured for $50,0000 and drown it – that will be a flat $2000 + 5% of $50,000 ($2500) – a total of $4500. This will be charged above and beyond any excesses that may already apply to the claim. These will be noted on your Certificate of Insurance and are specific to your policy.

Add that up and it is over $10K for me and close to that for you.

With Ken Tame there is an option (?) to guarantee rating 1 even in the event of a claim. I always choose to pay an extra $30 pa for that (more recently $50 pa) although last renewal it was included without request (I checked). After my $90K claim the premium increase was "nominal". I would generally choose the highest excess too, but there are no choices offered.
Cheers,
Peter

Cheers, Peter.
OKA196 tinyurl.com/OKA196xtMotorhome
Mob.0428171214

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20 Nov 2020 13:00 #11 by Cuppa
Cuppa replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
H Peter,
I too had a fair bit of correspondence with Club 4x4 before deciding to remain with them a year or two back, in particular over the issue you have quoted.

What you have quoted refers specifically to claims, not for remote area recovery, but for water damage resulting from a decision to drive through water. Like you it concerned me at the time, but following correspondence with Club 4x4's general Manager, Kalen Ziflian, I was satisfied that it is far more reasonable than it first appears. It was introduced as a result of a high number of claims from from 'gung ho' 4wd'ers who at the water's edge took the view of 'She'll be right , we're covered by insurance" instead of sensibly evaluating the risks involved. Rather than raising all premiums so the less gung ho among us copped the cost of cover for the 'less cautious' Club 4x4 chose to 'penalise those who incurred the costs unnecessarily'. They took the view that responsible drivers would check before ploughing in, & if in any doubt would choose not to. With this came the belief that if they still 'got it wrong' & drowned the vehicle, that they had exercised poor judgement. I specifically asked "What if it were emergency situation & we needed to get back to civilisation for medical help asap, & the river has risen behind us. The answer was essentially "use your satphone/epirb to summon help rather than risking making things worse by crossing when you cannot be sure it is safe to do so" which I considered a fair & reasonable reply. Note that it says "If you drive a vehicle & drown it" specifically referring to decision making to cross water. I recollect that they also clarified that it did not apply to all instances of water damage. Eg if bogged & caught by flood or tide. It also said water crossings are a normal & enjoyable part of 4wd'ing.

I'm not trying to change your view of Club 4x4, just explaining that I had similar concerns to you, but differently to you felt reassured by their responses to me. FWIW all insurance policies I've seen have a clause somewhere which refers to the owner's responsibility to care for the vehicle, & I don't think it at all unlikely that driving into a creek & getting caught would be construed as not caring for the vehicle, in which case many policies would simply wipe their hands of you rather than slugging you a largish excess.

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20 Nov 2020 13:40 - 20 Nov 2020 13:41 #12 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
Interesting response from the Ken Tame assessor when we first met after my $90,000 prang.
He asked if I had failed to apply the hand brake properly or if it was applied and did not work properly?

We insure for "stupid". We don't insure for poor maintenance.

Cheers,
Peter

Cheers, Peter.
OKA196 tinyurl.com/OKA196xtMotorhome
Mob.0428171214
Last Edit: 20 Nov 2020 13:41 by Peter_n_Margaret.

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21 Nov 2020 04:40 #13 by OKABloke
OKABloke replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
Was with Ken Kame after 20 Years wet to re-insure after 6 months sitting in my yard due to no use and the premium and Excess wet through the roof as they treated me like a new policy

Went to CIL Insurance as they were Cheaper, and offered Pay by the month on Auto debit something Ken Tame will not offer

Shannon's and Club 4x4 Will NOT insure a motorhome

For Sale:
XT and LT Parts and Service Manuals Available on CD. $150.00 Delivered
### OKA Manuals Now Available as a Download ###.

20mm Spring Hanger Pin Upgrade Kits.

David
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21 Nov 2020 05:12 #14 by Cuppa
Cuppa replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
Hi David,
From my recent reading it appears (to me) that it is impossible to predict what sort of premiums any of the insurance companies might offer, if at all! To be honest it doesn’t seem to follow a logical pattern to me. You did better going from KT to CIL, but I have read much the same story elsewhere of the reverse. As far as Club 4x4 not insuring motorhomes, that is contrary to my experience yesterday.They have given me a quote on the OKA which is registered as a motorhome. Perhaps it depends on which way the wind is blowing on any given day as to what is offered!

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22 Nov 2020 19:43 - 22 Nov 2020 19:46 #15 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
Will the roadside assistance provided by RACV et al still apply to an OKA even though it is over 4500kg.
Last Edit: 22 Nov 2020 19:46 by Tony Lee.

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22 Nov 2020 21:45 #16 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
I think the plans vary a lot.
My question is do I have to be resident in the State to buy the best cover? Can I get cover with the NRMA (for instance) while resident and registered in SA? They all have reciprocal rights.
Cheers,
Peter

Cheers, Peter.
OKA196 tinyurl.com/OKA196xtMotorhome
Mob.0428171214

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23 Nov 2020 03:32 #17 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
As Peter said it varies from state to state and the different auto clubs. Even though they have different weight and other restrictions they each provide reciprocal cover for members from other states.
I've found for example if you have to call for assistance from the NRMA then contact them direct regardless of where you are as that seems to avoid any local limits on weight etc.
They sent a tilt tray out to Oak Valley to pick us up when the torque converter split and gave us all the Premium Plus membership dollar entitlements just for towing to recover us back to Port Augusta. We weigh around 5.5t in travelling trim. It was a huge tilt tray and had no problems sitting on 100k with the Oka on the back.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 1100w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

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23 Nov 2020 04:22 - 23 Nov 2020 04:30 #18 by Cuppa
Cuppa replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
RACV Total Care limits are 8 Tonne GVM, 9 metres length, & 3.3 metres height.

In the past when those limits were lower & we had a 7 metre , 5.2tonne bus, we found that as long as the local RAC contractor had a vehicle they could fit you on, they would & RACV still provided cover.

Wouldn’t leave home without it!

I believe that you can only join the Organisation for the State where you reside.
Last Edit: 23 Nov 2020 04:30 by Cuppa.

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23 Nov 2020 11:07 - 23 Nov 2020 11:16 #19 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
I have comprehensive insurance on the Queensland-registered Hino with NRMA and third party property insurance on the WA registered OKA also with the NRMA but of course we are living in NSW so maybe that is why they didn't care dhere it was registered and garaged

Ah sorry Peter, just realised you were talking about roadside service, not insurancr
Last Edit: 23 Nov 2020 11:16 by Tony Lee.

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23 Nov 2020 11:20 - 23 Nov 2020 11:29 #20 by Cuppa
Cuppa replied the topic: Insuring an OKA
I believe it is probably the garaging address which is pertinent Tony. The OKA we are buying is currently registered in Qld, & I want to keep it registered in Qld for the time being. I am able to do this because I have a Qld Garaging address ... As we pay no rent nor utility bills I was concerned we could not demonstrate that we have a Qld garaging address,but when I phoned the department, it was very easy. I just needed to download a form for the property owner to sign confirming we could garage the vehicle where we are currently living. Had we been paying rent or utility bills, copies of the relevant invoices would have sufficed.

It is worth doing as to transfer rego, when I buy the vehicle, straight to Vic carries fees double those if I transfer it to my name in Qld. When we return to Vic I will transfer rego to there, but as it will already be in my name there are no further transfer fees.

Whether the same applies to membership of motoring organisations I don't know, but I'd guess if I wanted to join the RACQ with the OKA once it's in my name it would probably be reasonably straightforward ...... unless they want specific proof of a Qld drivers licence - that presumably would take a little longer.
Last Edit: 23 Nov 2020 11:29 by Cuppa.

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