Dana 80

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31 Dec 2012 10:29 - 31 Dec 2012 10:49 #21 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Dana 80
See below for corrected data in red:

Chris James wrote: Hello all,with all this discussion on the 80 diffs,can someone tell me the difference between a 70 and an 80? I was led to believe that the only difference was the tube wall thickness, from 1/2inch to 9/16inch. Bearings,seals,axles,gears etc.all being the same.Have I been led up the garden path ?????? Chris

Chris, everything is bigger than the Dana 70U which the OKA uses except the hubs, wheel bearings and brakes. If it were a D70HD it would be a different story but that's not what we have, see data below:
Diff D70u D80
axle splines 32 35
ring gear 10.5" 11.25"
pinion splines 29 37
pinion shaft 1.75" 2"


Quoted from Petefox:

Chris
the Dana axles are all different:


Dana 80 rear - ring gear size 11.25" - gross axle weight 10,100 lbs - 4590 kg
Dana 70 rear - ring gear size 10.5" - gross axle weight 8.580 lbs - 3900 kg
Dana 70 front - ring gear size 10.75 - gross axle weight 8,400 lbs - 3818 kg
10.5", same as all D70's
Dana 60 front - ring gear size 10.1" - gross axle weight 7,350 lbs - 3340 kg
9.75", there was a 'Dana Super 60' also known as the 'Dana 61' produced which had 10.1" or 10" ring gear from memory. Otherwise, the standard one in the OKA from the manual states a GAWR of 2400kg, the bear OKA weighs in at about 2000kg on the front axle without passengers and luggage, ie good luck staying under 2400kg while anything including passengers infront of the rear axle line contributes to the front axle load! Also, since when does anyone want to stay 'on the limit' of anything mechanical, everyone's experience counters that argument. Also, GAWR's are heavily variable and dependant on components, vehicle and tyres so those shown above are upper limit values as seen by the discrepancy between the two D60 GAWR's shown!

the above data is for new Dana axles in 2012 , which may be different from that fitted to our Okas.

A 'Dana 80' front axle is not a thing that is made by Dana, though some specials are built aftermarket in the US.

The 'Dana' axles that Paul supplies are not the same as these and therefore his weight rating may be different from these. Paul uses imported mechanical components but the tubes, housings, carrier, knuckles and hubs etc are all made in Aust.

"I would love Dana 80`s, and think they are more suited to an OKA, but the cost is the problem. Last time I checked it was 10 to 15k I think."

Lobo, the cost of a pair of Dana 80's is well above these prices. I disagree, i've spent far below these prices.

Alastair,
I don't doubt that the Dana 60 experiences all of the problems that you mentioned and probably more, but according to the data above they exceed the Oka load limit of 2400kg by a margin of 39%. If these figures hold true for the Oka version of the axle.
Perhaps at least some of the issues you mention are to do with age/metal fatigue and or abuse/overloading.
Pete, as stated above the pure fact that it is impossible to not overload the front axle would indicate that yes the axles fail due to "abuse/overloading" as one majour cause and yes this leads to premature "age/metal fatigue" of various parts. Also, add in bigger tyres which a lot of people are doing (extra leverage on drivetrain) and possible power upgrades (extra power through drivetrain) and things get even worse!

Look, everyone do their research and make their own decision, i'm just trying to put the facts up here and show why some people choose to upgrade...

Also, thanks to our Esteemed Moderators for their assistance, our newly fashioned gallery looks fantastic!

Happy OKAing to all!
Last Edit: 31 Dec 2012 10:49 by Alister McBride.

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01 Jan 2013 07:13 #22 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: Dana 80
So what does it cost for Pauls Dana 80`s???

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02 Jan 2013 12:35 #23 by Joseph Baz
Joseph Baz replied the topic: Dana 80
Talk to Paul,last time we spoke no price was set as he was trying to get some prodduccion going and that was going to bring the price down a bit
Cheers,Joe

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23 Jan 2013 06:50 #24 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Dana 80
Went in to Jeep Konection yesterday to pickup a Hi-Lift Jack (thanks to David for putting us onto them) and after figuring out how i knew them through family they asked:
"so what vehicle to you have?",
i replied "an OKA, do you know of them?",
"yeah they have that 6.5" on 8 by 5/8" wheel stud pattern don't they?",
"Yep, that's the one, it's pretty common in F-series, Dodge's and Chev's",
another guy in the store chimes in "aren't they the one's that bend front diff's?"
I laughed thinking of this forum and said "yeah they can, that's why some people make a dana 70 or 80 front diff..."
Anyway, thought it was funny that we'd just been discussing this here and a random guy said something like that... I guess stereotypes are there based on previous form.

Cheers,
Alister

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23 Jan 2013 07:35 - 23 Jan 2013 08:21 #25 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Dana 80
Alister, I haven't heard of a "bent" front diff, (living under a rock too long I guess), but my Dana 60 certainly has wheel lean-in which causes tyres to wear on the inside.

I have replaced the upper nylon king pin bushes which helped a little, but short of replacing the axle, has anyone installed these camber shims [from Moog (steel) or Spicer (plastic)] to correct the lean-in?


Other solutions are available, such as camber adjusting lower bearing pins from Ingalls Engineering :

However I would not consider using this type as it relies on an eccentric bolt to set and maintain the camber.

Anything that can move, will move, and one shock and you could be left with a +/-10º camber. I might use one on my fridge door hinge but not on the Oka steering.

This second idea from Specialty Products , which replaces the top bush (and is therefore easier to fit than shims), seems to hold more promise, but is only available in +/-1º or +/-1.5º versions, ie not fully adjustable, which is probably a good thing.


David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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Last Edit: 23 Jan 2013 08:21 by dandjcr.

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23 Jan 2013 08:51 #26 by PeteFox
PeteFox replied the topic: Dana 80
Dave
I think these solutions look like a fairly agricultural way of fixing (disguising?) a problem.

If your wheels are leaning in and the kingpins aren't the problem, then your inner C's are bent/stretched or the tube is bent.

A more permanent though expensive solution is to replace the inner C's


There is an interesting article called Building A Dana 60 Front Axle That’ll Never Fai l

Pete Fox OKA266 MultiCab
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

www.byles.net/www.oka4wd.com/forum/membe...oka-266?limitstart=0

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24 Jan 2013 07:12 - 24 Jan 2013 07:38 #27 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Dana 80
"If your wheels are leaning in and the kingpins aren't the problem, then your inner C's are bent/stretched or the tube is bent."
Bingo Pete! These are the Dana 70 C-end (used on D80's of Paul K's), not Dana 60. Solid Axle Industries also sells a good version, either can be purchased through Paul K.

Dave I've seen bracing welded to housing's to stop further 'bending' of the tubes and the C-ends are a common problem.

See www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/index2.html for a write-up of all D60 variations and possible faults including C-ends and Knuckles near the top of the page (this is page 2 of a 2 page analysis).

Cheers, Alister
Last Edit: 24 Jan 2013 07:38 by Alister McBride.

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24 Jan 2013 08:20 - 24 Jan 2013 08:26 #28 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Dana 80
Thanks Pete and Alister, my "lean-in" is fairly minor, it's not like the axle is bent like this or anything. (Hilux rear, Cape York 2010).



In fact the lean-in's barely visible or measurable and only shows up in tyre wear (it's been this way a long time and could be caused by toe-out although the alignment is set about parallel, I'll double check, should be 1 to 1.6mm toe-in).

Mine (obviously, with a diff seal leak) vs Pirate4x4 "C" ends. Not a lot of apparent difference so I don't think it warrants a major rebuild just yet.



Pirate4x4 is always my first port of call for any axle related issues but it's surprising that I couldn't find any reference there to Dana camber problems, even though they are very common in a Google search.

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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Last Edit: 24 Jan 2013 08:26 by dandjcr.

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24 Jan 2013 12:27 - 24 Jan 2013 12:28 #29 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Dana 80
Do you think he was able to limp it home??? Nothing a well placed star picket wouldn't handle! lol

The OKA's C-ends are the D60 version which is shown above in both pics, they often just get slowly worse over many years of corrugations and overloading... The D70 C-ends are very noticeably bigger when you have them in your hand. There's basically metal wherever there isn't turning parts. The bottom arm is the load bearing part and they are probably about 1/4" thicker vertically and almost 1/2" thicker width wise, also they have more meat around the bearing...

Yes, pirate4x4 is a good resource but it doesn't have everything and sometimes suffers from "ignorseppopinion" but that's easily spotted with a "redneckometer"...

Cheers, Alister
Last Edit: 24 Jan 2013 12:28 by Alister McBride.

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24 Jan 2013 12:38 - 24 Jan 2013 12:42 #30 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Dana 80
Alister, a star picket was available, but it was still being flat-bed-ed south.

Strangely it wasn't the bent axle (or star picket) that first attracted my attention...


David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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Last Edit: 24 Jan 2013 12:42 by dandjcr.

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24 Jan 2013 13:40 #31 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: Dana 80
Was it the yellow truck you was admiring and attracted your attention first?

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25 Jan 2013 06:28 #32 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Dana 80
No OBJ, David's a stickler for nature, it's the rare tea-tree in the background! Australia has some amazing flora and fauna

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25 Jan 2013 07:53 - 25 Jan 2013 07:55 #33 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Dana 80
And some of the introduced fauna look amazing too.

But the reason for this post is to actually expose my technical shame and embarrassment.

I've overhauled the front axle (amongst many other things), including repair of worn spindles, but I've only had to fix brakes, bearings and oil seals on the rear axle and I did not realise that Dana 70 rear spindles were not removable!

So all these bolts are just to hold the calliper on? I naturally, but incorrectly, thought they also held the spindle on, like the front.



This pic from the manual should have given me a clue.



So I'd better not damage the bearing surfaces or it's a big job to repair.

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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Last Edit: 25 Jan 2013 07:55 by dandjcr.

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25 Jan 2013 08:24 #34 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: Dana 80
I thought that there was rear spindles as well.

Like you said, might pay to be vigilant. Maybe even replacing bearings/seals every few years to be on the safe side.

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25 Jan 2013 16:24 - 25 Jan 2013 16:26 #35 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Dana 80
I find the seal running surface is the quickest to wear. The bearing surfaces do go as well though over time as the bearing inner actually turns very slowly over the spindle, especially under heavy loads. That's why Paul K makes his D80's with removable spindles so if anything happens to the spindles you're not up for a new housing or expensive machining...

Nice prep work you're doing there David! Very tidy! ;)

Cheers, Alister
Last Edit: 25 Jan 2013 16:26 by Alister McBride.

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25 Jan 2013 18:05 #36 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Dana 80
Alister, I've got a speedisleeve ready in case of future serious seal surface wear.

I've suffered bearing cup rotation on the front spindles previously (the symptom BTW was a high frequency buzzing vibration at certain speeds from the front hubs) so I also have some bearing locking compound (Loctite 641) which I shall apply next time I have the rear hubs off. So unless the spindles snap off we should be OK for a while.

Extricating washing up equipment from domestic to mechanical duties was not easy, but we were a long way from home and the brake pads had become soaked in diff oil so cleaning in detergent was deemed "justifiable use".

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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25 Jan 2013 18:40 #37 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Dana 80
I think you need to machine down the surface to fit a speedisleeve don't you??? (could be wrong, haven't done one yet). But yes i think the loctite is not a bad idea although removing that bearing in the future might be a bit more difficult...

Did the dishes taste a bit greasy for a few days?? lol

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25 Jan 2013 18:57 - 25 Jan 2013 19:15 #38 by Joseph Baz
Joseph Baz replied the topic: Dana 80
Al,
You don't need to machine the surface,just have to make sure that the receiving area us free of barbs or deep ridges,if the old seal working surface is too worn i usually fill it in with some DAVCON and file it smooth to form a surface similar to the original and then fit the Speedysleeve,if Loctite is used you need to make sure that you always carry a spare wheel hub seal as it's near impossible to remove the hub without damaging the seal,this is only in an emergency like if you got bogged in a creek and need to clean the bearings out otherways you always replace the seal.
Cheers,Joe
Last Edit: 25 Jan 2013 19:15 by Joseph Baz.

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26 Jan 2013 05:25 - 26 Jan 2013 05:42 #39 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Dana 80
Here's a useful Loctite selection chart for retaining rotating components.

File Attachment:

File Name: Retaining_...uide.pdf
File Size:437 KB


There's lots more useful reading in the Loctite library here , and more useful info in our own Tech Docs library, (Workshop info, quick access here ).

Joe, I agree re seals, they are quite cheap and I use an internal gear puller to remove them, pulling against a bar across the rear of the hub. A smear of grease on them before insertion helps with removal too.

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
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Last Edit: 26 Jan 2013 05:42 by dandjcr.

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29 Jan 2013 06:47 - 29 Jan 2013 07:27 #40 by dandjcr
dandjcr replied the topic: Loctite FAQs
I've started a new topic on Thread Locking and Bearing Retention here .

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Last Edit: 29 Jan 2013 07:27 by dandjcr.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Joseph Baz

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