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29 Dec 2020 08:02 #2 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: OKA Forums
From my perspective there is only one OKA forum, and this is it.
Cheers,
Peter

Cheers, Peter.
OKA196 tinyurl.com/OKA196xtMotorhome
Mob.0428171214
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29 Dec 2020 09:17 #3 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: OKA Forums
I vaguely recall mention of a Facebook site - singular, but two sites???

Tony
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29 Dec 2020 09:27 #4 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: OKA Forums
Ah, OK, there are indeed two sites.
Next question is why are there two sites, or three if you count the recent one.

Getting rid of this one won't change having to view multiple sites if you suffer from a severe case of FOMO

Tony
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29 Dec 2020 12:35 #5 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: OKA Forums
Tony, a long time ago a user was banned from this site, I can't recall the reason. But said user started his own bat-and-ball on Faecesbook. The other one I think already existed.

Rick, for my part I will keep going on this site. If this site closes, I most certainly will not be joining any facebook sites. This site has, as you say, the heritage of Hal Harvey and David Ribbands and I firmly believe that the memory of them and all they did for Oka owners deserves to be preserved.

I certainly don't plan to join any sites that help the advertising revenue of Mark Suckerberg!
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29 Dec 2020 13:17 - 29 Dec 2020 13:20 #6 by Tony Lee
Tony Lee replied the topic: OKA Forums
Thanks Paul,
I'm not at all adverse to certain aspects of Facebook and actively post to several groups on solar power, international overlanding, motorhome specific groups and a couple of others, all very closely intertwined with my lifestyle - or rather, my pre Covid-19 lifestyle.
What I don't engage in are friends - I have two that I have actually met and stayed with - and personal stuff up on walls or whatever. Family stuff is strictly via whatsApp

One of my big reservations with Facebook can best be explained by an example.
I have been a member of an 28000-strong group on Chinese diesel heaters for a fair while. I have 3 of them so believe in getting clued up before they break down - as I do with vehicles I buy sigt unseen. So being an active member and helping lots of people out, I was getting heaps of notification every day. They suddenly stopped and it seemed as if that group had disappeared completely. What actually happened - I think - is that I was banned without explanation and the site hidden from me.
I suspect it was because I contradicted the expert owner once too often but I don't really know, and all my posts have vanished from my account. One consolation is there are at least 10 similar groups on Facebook if I ever need something.



Obviously it could happen with this forum, but it seems as if Facebook is considerably more precarious and arbitrary than regular Web sites.
And obviously too, anyone can start their own facebook group with hugely less effort than required to set this forum up.

Tony
Last Edit: 29 Dec 2020 13:20 by Tony Lee.
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29 Dec 2020 17:27 #7 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: OKA Forums

Tony Lee wrote: Thanks Paul,
I'm not at all adverse to certain aspects of Facebook and actively post to several groups on solar power, international overlanding, motorhome specific groups and a couple of others, all very closely intertwined with my lifestyle - or rather, my pre Covid-19 lifestyle.
What I don't engage in are friends - I have two that I have actually met and stayed with - and personal stuff up on walls or whatever. Family stuff is strictly via whatsApp

One of my big reservations with Facebook can best be explained by an example.
I have been a member of an 28000-strong group on Chinese diesel heaters for a fair while. I have 3 of them so believe in getting clued up before they break down - as I do with vehicles I buy sigt unseen. So being an active member and helping lots of people out, I was getting heaps of notification every day. They suddenly stopped and it seemed as if that group had disappeared completely. What actually happened - I think - is that I was banned without explanation and the site hidden from me.
I suspect it was because I contradicted the expert owner once too often but I don't really know, and all my posts have vanished from my account. One consolation is there are at least 10 similar groups on Facebook if I ever need something.



Obviously it could happen with this forum, but it seems as if Facebook is considerably more precarious and arbitrary than regular Web sites.
And obviously too, anyone can start their own facebook group with hugely less effort than required to set this forum up.


Exactly right...
FB is a social media site, so for get together, or social signalling it is unparalleled.
And I guess if someone's spgets knickers in a twist, then the social part ends up as a banishment and getting voted off the island?

For technical information, then a technical site seems more apropos.
I see the same Q&A on FB for what part number is X... or what are the numbers for filters, belt and hoses.
It is like FB is the Google of everything.
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29 Dec 2020 17:31 - 29 Dec 2020 17:31 #8 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: OKA Forums

Rick Whitworth wrote: Time to throw a gremlin in your diff or is that a cat among the pidgeons....
...
This site, as originated by Hal Harvey and championed by many advocates inluding David Ribbans contains a wealth of searchable information categorised under at least some form of index.
...
Another pertinent point that has been skirted around before is website IP ownership.
Does it reside with all those members and originators who contributed to build the data or with the domain owner?
..


I believe that the domain owner, is the Hinorable Ms Liz Harvey.
And I do not believe that the contributors and originators have any ownership of the domain.
Last Edit: 29 Dec 2020 17:31 by Holmz.
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29 Dec 2020 18:07 #9 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: OKA Forums

Holmz wrote: I believe that the domain owner, is the Hinorable Ms Liz Harvey.
And I do not believe that the contributors and originators have any ownership of the domain.


1. are you certain that Liz still owns the domain?
2. Just the point, surely the website IP ownership (ie the Intellectual Property of data created by and vested in by its members) and the domain ownership are different things.
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29 Dec 2020 20:00 #10 by ABE
ABE replied the topic: OKA Forums
It is a bit like politics go and vote as you please but having more than one site is not so bad as we end up getting more interest in our OKA’s and that is not a bad thing. Most of the younger generation like other mediums like facebook so one now has to carter to the larger mass of people and diversity, that is not a bad thing in today’s world. If you do not like the Facebook site it is your choice not to look at it. Same with voting we vote the way we like, usually in politics that is not the same way for everyone, freedom of choice it is a great thing and I hope we never lose it in Australia
Regards to all
ABE Tony

ABE Tony
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30 Dec 2020 14:23 #11 by mort
mort replied the topic: OKA Forums
Hi All,
while I have anything to do with it this site will not close down.
Where else do you get a search function going back to 2012.
As Holmz stated F.B. is more a social media site and the forum is more technical.
Hal started and owned the site and all within untill his passing then Liza who has given myself the right to run it with the help of Holmz and Frank we are administrators only not owners.
Martyn
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31 Dec 2020 18:33 #12 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: OKA Forums
There are two facebook groups that i know of and this forum. The facebook groups are good for fairly superficial stuff (that i've seen) and are great for getting 'modern' people involved in oka's but i would always come back here for any reasonably in-depth discussion/topics. Yes, it is a bit stupid having two fb groups where people post exactly the same thing on both though... i suppose someone could ask one to back down...? ;)
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01 Jan 2021 01:48 #13 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: OKA Forums
Couldn't agree more Alister.
I reckon facebook gives a valuable OKA link to social media and the sites do have valuable content.
But do we need two fb sites with many shared posts that are carbon copies but have different replies??
Also the posts often relate to a wealth of info already here on oka4wd.com.
The posts here don't have to be technical so long as they are OKA related.
oka4wd.com has a wide range of searchable existing topics and new ones can be created for anything to do with OKAs.
The more the merrier?
...Maybe a change could come from group opinion and persuasive encouragement for more oka4wd.com usage and members?

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01 Jan 2021 05:35 #14 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: OKA Forums

Rick Whitworth wrote: Couldn't agree more Alister.
I reckon facebook gives a valuable OKA link to social media and the sites do have valuable content.
But do we need two fb sites with many shared posts that are carbon copies but have different replies??
Also the posts often relate to a wealth of info already here on oka4wd.com.
The posts here don't have to be technical so long as they are OKA related.
oka4wd.com has a wide range of searchable existing topics and new ones can be created for anything to do with OKAs.
The more the merrier?
...Maybe a change could come from group opinion and persuasive encouragement for more oka4wd.com usage and members?


Since many get their news from FB they seem to want their technical info streaming by there as well.
Sort of like the Wizard of Oz where they can ask the Wzard whatever question they want.

I (We) have no control over FB and their groups.
Whether we want or need 2, we have 2. Adding another "I'll take my ball", type will get us to 3...

(Personally I CBA about it too much, and I appreciate the efforts of many who have helped like the departed(s)'s posts.)
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30 Jan 2021 21:56 - 30 Jan 2021 21:57 #15 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: OKA Forums
Couple things

The original OKA forum and owners group was before Hal has started this Forum. There is only one OKA forum, that is this one.

There are currently three Facebook sites, you can check out the start dates, you will see which one was first.

The difference from this Forum and Facebook is that a corrupt few cannot ban users.

This site got quite toxic several years ago for a year or two. With two sides basically, one who support certain business`s and ones who tried to do things differently or suggest others suppliers etc often shoot down.

no FB group, Forums etc have a monoply any brand/make/ interest etc. There are lots of FB groups, Forums etc that are supporting similar interest, one particular vehicle make/model etc.

At the end of the day, The more interest, groups etc the better we can have to support OKA, the better. It keeps the value of OKA`s up and the sharing of the knowledge.

Some prefer Faceache, some prefer forums etc etc.

Shouldn't the important thing be that we all have a Passion all things OKA. How we get our information, how we get others interested etc shouldn't really matter to others but yourself
Last Edit: 30 Jan 2021 21:57 by Outback Jack.
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31 Jan 2021 06:42 #16 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: OKA Forums
Lobo, I think it is a bit unfair to speak of a "corrupt few". I also think it is unfair to say this site got toxic. There has been discussion for years and years about whether it is best to support local established businesses or to start new ones or import parts.

It was a reasonable discussion - some thought it best to bypass the locals and buy from overseas to save a few pennies, others said that by supporting our local suppliers we could get instant help when needed. This help may be needed in the middle of Australia, and I don't think ANYONE EVER could have such a great record of helping stranded Oka owners as our traditional local suppliers.

It is also easy to see that our local suppliers are not millionaires - they are passionate people doing it more for love than money.

So lets not go down this "Divide and conquer" route.
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31 Jan 2021 08:04 - 31 Jan 2021 08:37 #17 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: OKA Forums
Maybe a corrupt few was bit harsh.

However the fact is people got banned by said business`s. Because they would not use them or did things there own way. We own our vehicles, not the manufacture or some other OKA business. How we and what we do to our vehicles is our choice.

Perhaps the suppliers are not millionaires. But they have earnt a living on supplying and supporting OKA owners. Good on the them if they can make a living on something they are passionate about. They do have a lot of knowledge and expertise. They have helped a lot of people get out of trouble. Don't think there has been any question about that,

I stand by that this site did get Toxic and there was bullying in place by definition. A lot of people left this forum because of it. This is not really any different to any other Forum, Faceache page etc. You will get strong opinions on how to do or not do something. The very core of being an OKA owner is being passionate about OKA`s, sometimes people agree on how to do something, where to buy parts etc etc. No different to anything else in life, we choose what we eat, drink etc etc.

As my last post, we should stand as Brothers in Arms despite our own opinions we all have one thing in common. We love OKA`s and are mostly passionate owners.

There is no where like this Forum, it has been around a long time. A lot of people have shared information etc. However its good to move with the times. Faceache is the preferred platform for a lot of people.

What we need to do is keep the OKA dream alive, so it shouldn't matter where people choose to hang out.......
Last Edit: 31 Jan 2021 08:37 by Outback Jack.
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31 Jan 2021 08:45 #18 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: OKA Forums

Outback Jack wrote: However the fact is people got banned by said business`s. Because they would not use them


Just a plug for oka4wd,com...

I have been a member of this forum since it first began.
I was not aware that anyone had ever been banned.
I was certainly not aware that any business has ever had any influence on site membership whatsoever and have always been under the impression that membership was free and open to all.
I have always found members to be most helpful, sometimes with a healthy divergence of views but never toxic.
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31 Jan 2021 12:50 #19 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: OKA Forums

Outback Jack wrote:
However the fact is people got banned by said business`s. Because they would not use them or did things there own way.
..


Lobo, I was around this forum at the time, and that is NOT the way I recall the episode, not at all. There is no point in bringing this all up again, or for people to search through old posts. Best we all just stick to the media we like and leave the other sites alone.
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31 Jan 2021 18:18 #20 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: OKA Forums
Hi guys, i've been on this and the forums previous to this also, right back to as far as i'm aware, the first forum (before Hal, that i can remember). I agree with both on this point but i don't want this to go any further either as i don't think it's helpful to get arguments going again. However, i personally didn't look at the forum for a while as there was a lot of bickering. It seems to have changed in recent times which i am happy about. Although i do notice that there are fewer people here now than there was... unfortunately. The reasons for that i'm not aware.

All up, lets venture to keep things positive and helpful and the forum will serve it's purpose... ;)
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31 Jan 2021 19:13 #21 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: OKA Forums

Outback Jack wrote: Couple things
...
The difference from this Forum and Facebook is that a corrupt few cannot ban users.
...


Both formats have administration schemes that allow a select few to kick anyone out that they deem should be for any reasons whatsoever.

Like the advise in the Johnathan Livingston Seagull story... "<just> Let it go" ;) or the Beatles "Let it be", if you like music better than books.

Mate, why even pick at a scab?
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