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- Batteries - Flooded Vs AGM or GEL
Batteries - Flooded Vs AGM or GEL
- dandjcr
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01 Nov 2012 11:12 #1
by dandjcr
David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
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dandjcr created the topic: Batteries - Flooded Vs AGM or GEL
Forum Home > OKA Maintenance > Batteries - Flooded Vs AGM or GEL
Peter_n_Margaret
Member
Posts: 198
Another discussion on batteries........
I put this up on the Caravaners forum, so apologies to those who saw it there.
The differences may seem obvious, many of them are, but then again, maybe not?
I will leave others to list the generally well known differences, but will describe a very important difference for those who venture off the bitumen.
In the first 5 years and 150,000km of the OKA I had had only one house battery bank.
When they eventually died, I suspect that they had sulphated (yes, AGMs can sulphate) through charge rates that were too low and not being worked hard enough. But that is off the subject.
Over the same 5 years, I replaced the crank battery 3 times. I was using top quality, sealed, flooded batteries.
The first one lasted 2 years and I assumed it was just 'bad luck'.
The second was a really good quality Ca/Ca and only lasted 3 years.
I 'took it apart' out of curiosity. I am fairly certain that it failed mechanically. It had simply shaken to pieces on the corrugations (we do see a few of those from time to time where we go ).
There are differences between "normal" battery construction and (some) of those labelled "4X4" or "marine". The plates in "normal" batteries are suspended from the top of the battery. They are unsupported at the bottom and in adverse conditions may 'flap around' a lot. Those sold as 4x4 or marine are supposedly built better and have support for the plates at the bottom of the battery as well as at the top. This makes them much less likely to fail through vibration and shock.
The second crank battery in the OKA that only lasted 3 years was constructed this way.
GEL and AGM batteries however go one BIG step further.
The plates are fully supported over their entire surface by the GEL that is used instead of the liquid acid in flooded batteries.
So much better is the support (and sealing) that these batteries can be installed on their side or even up side down. It is not recommended to install them on end.
The current crank battery in the OKA is a 120Ahr Fullriver HGL series AGM.
The HGL series has better CCA ratings than the DC series batteries. The one I am using has ample cranking capacity for the 4L, 4 cylinder, Perkins diesel powered OKA.
A word of warning, however. I understand that AGM batteries do not appreciate the high temperatures usually found under the bonnets of modern cars. The one in the OKA is on the side of the vehicle, so does not have to contend with that issue.
--
Cheers Peter, OKA196 Motorhome. www.oka4wd.com/xt196.htm
December 28, 2010 at 6:30 AM Flag Quote & Reply
len&rina
Member
Posts: 38
Peter_n_Margaret at December 28, 2010 at 6:30 AM
Another discussion on batteries........
I put this up on the Caravaners forum, so appologies to those who saw it there.
The differences may seem obvious, many of them are, but then again, maybe not?
I will leave others to list the generally well known differences, but will describe a very important difference for those who venture off the bitumen.
In the first 5 years and 150,000km of the OKA I had had only one house battery bank.
When they eventually died, I suspect that they had sulphated (yes, AGMs can sulphate) through charge rates that were too low and not being worked hard enough. But that is off the subject.
Over the same 5 years, I replaced the crank battery 3 times. I was using top quality, sealed, flooded batteries.
The first one lasted 2 years and I assumed it was just 'bad luck'.
The second was a really good quality Ca/Ca and only lasted 3 years.
I 'took it apart' out of curiosity. I am fairly certain that it failed mechanically. It had simply shaken to pieces on the corrugations (we do see a few of those from time to time where we go ).
There are differences between "normal" battery construction and (some) of those labelled "4X4" or "marine". The plates in "normal" batteries are suspended from the top of the battery. They are unsupported at the bottom and in adverse conditions may 'flap around' a lot. Those sold as 4x4 or marine are supposedly built better and have support for the plates at the bottom of the battery as well as at the top. This makes them much less likely to fail through vibration and shock.
The second crank battery in the OKA that only lasted 3 years was constructed this way.
GEL and AGM batteries however go one BIG step further.
The plates are fully supported over their entire surface by the GEL that is used instead of the liquid acid in flooded batteries.
So much better is the support (and sealing) that these batteries can be installed on their side or even up side down. It is not recommended to install them on end.
The current crank battery in the OKA is a 120Ahr Fullriver HGL series AGM.
The HGL series has better CCA ratings than the DC series batteries. The one I am using has ample cranking capacity for the 4L, 4 cylinder, Perkins diesel powered OKA.
A word of warning, however. I understand that AGM batteries do not appreciate the high temperatures usually found under the bonnets of modern cars. The one in the OKA is on the side of the vehicle, so does not have to contend with that issue.
Peter,
As I understand it from the Fullriver information the HGL series are purely Deep cycle application,not as a cranking battery.In fact I use 2x260amp HGL for house batteries and have been using 120amp for 8years in my previous incarnation as a winnebago owner.
--
December 28, 2010 at 5:21 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Peter_n_Margaret
Member
Posts: 198
Check out the DC manual.....
www.rjbatt.com/attachments/064_Fullriver...anual%20AUG-2010.pdf
Or this comparison sheet (a smaller download).
www.rjbatt.com/attachments/064_Fullriver...lication%20guide.pdf
--
Cheers Peter, OKA196 Motorhome. www.oka4wd.com/xt196.htm
December 28, 2010 at 6:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply
len&rina
Member
Posts: 38
Peter_n_Margaret at December 28, 2010 at 6:05 PM
Check out the DC manual.....
www.rjbatt.com/attachments/064_Fullriver...anual%20AUG-2010.pdf
Or this comparison sheet (a smaller download).
www.rjbatt.com/attachments/064_Fullriver...lication%20guide.pdf
Hi Peter,
I agree that the DC series is suitable for cranking,but am still cannot see the connection to the HGL which you say you are using.
--
December 29, 2010 at 9:35 AM Flag Quote & Reply
Peter_n_Margaret
Member
Posts: 198
I am using the DC for the house for cycling, because that is what they were designed for and they are better for this than the HGL.
The HGL was designed as a standby power supply battery but has a better CCA rating than the DC, so my use of one as a crank is somewhat experimental. So far, so good.
I could possibly have used another DC for cranking as well, but the HGL appeared to be better.
The real purpose of the thread was to discuss the better physical attributes of the AGM batteries compared to flooded house batteries when exposed to the constant vibration abuse that some of us manage to give them. If they also provide adequate cranking life as well. that would be a great bonus, in my view.
--
Cheers Peter, OKA196 Motorhome. www.oka4wd.com/xt196.htm
December 30, 2010 at 4:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
"The HGL was designed as a standby power supply battery but has a better CCA rating than the DC, so my use of one as a crank is somewhat experimental. So far, so good."
How much better and especially how much better at freezing temperatures when it really counts.
--
Tony
picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379
January 1, 2011 at 10:46 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Peter_n_Margaret
Member
Posts: 198
Don't know the answer to that Tony, but if I get into strife, I can allways close the 2 way RedArc and use the house batteries to help with the cranking.
Cheers,
Peter
--
Cheers Peter, OKA196 Motorhome. www.oka4wd.com/xt196.htm
January 2, 2011 at 4:37 AM Flag Quote & Reply
Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
They do give figures. these are the ones for my DC260 house batteries. If I get bored later I'll look up the others
CRANKING PERFORMANCE
2135
HCA 70˚F
1830
CA 32˚F
1525
CCA 0˚F
--
Tony
picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379
January 2, 2011 at 8:17 AM Flag Quote & Reply
Peter_n_Margaret
Member
Posts: 198
www.fullriver.com/products/admin/upfile/HGL120-12B.pdf
The HGL120 shows a max discharge rate of 1200A (5 secs, 25C) which is higher than the 1100A quoted for the DC115, but I can't see a CCA for the HGL now...............
--
Cheers Peter, OKA196 Motorhome. www.oka4wd.com/xt196.htm
January 2, 2011 at 12:15 PM
Peter_n_Margaret
Member
Posts: 198
Another discussion on batteries........
I put this up on the Caravaners forum, so apologies to those who saw it there.
The differences may seem obvious, many of them are, but then again, maybe not?
I will leave others to list the generally well known differences, but will describe a very important difference for those who venture off the bitumen.
In the first 5 years and 150,000km of the OKA I had had only one house battery bank.
When they eventually died, I suspect that they had sulphated (yes, AGMs can sulphate) through charge rates that were too low and not being worked hard enough. But that is off the subject.
Over the same 5 years, I replaced the crank battery 3 times. I was using top quality, sealed, flooded batteries.
The first one lasted 2 years and I assumed it was just 'bad luck'.
The second was a really good quality Ca/Ca and only lasted 3 years.
I 'took it apart' out of curiosity. I am fairly certain that it failed mechanically. It had simply shaken to pieces on the corrugations (we do see a few of those from time to time where we go ).
There are differences between "normal" battery construction and (some) of those labelled "4X4" or "marine". The plates in "normal" batteries are suspended from the top of the battery. They are unsupported at the bottom and in adverse conditions may 'flap around' a lot. Those sold as 4x4 or marine are supposedly built better and have support for the plates at the bottom of the battery as well as at the top. This makes them much less likely to fail through vibration and shock.
The second crank battery in the OKA that only lasted 3 years was constructed this way.
GEL and AGM batteries however go one BIG step further.
The plates are fully supported over their entire surface by the GEL that is used instead of the liquid acid in flooded batteries.
So much better is the support (and sealing) that these batteries can be installed on their side or even up side down. It is not recommended to install them on end.
The current crank battery in the OKA is a 120Ahr Fullriver HGL series AGM.
The HGL series has better CCA ratings than the DC series batteries. The one I am using has ample cranking capacity for the 4L, 4 cylinder, Perkins diesel powered OKA.
A word of warning, however. I understand that AGM batteries do not appreciate the high temperatures usually found under the bonnets of modern cars. The one in the OKA is on the side of the vehicle, so does not have to contend with that issue.
--
Cheers Peter, OKA196 Motorhome. www.oka4wd.com/xt196.htm
December 28, 2010 at 6:30 AM Flag Quote & Reply
len&rina
Member
Posts: 38
Peter_n_Margaret at December 28, 2010 at 6:30 AM
Another discussion on batteries........
I put this up on the Caravaners forum, so appologies to those who saw it there.
The differences may seem obvious, many of them are, but then again, maybe not?
I will leave others to list the generally well known differences, but will describe a very important difference for those who venture off the bitumen.
In the first 5 years and 150,000km of the OKA I had had only one house battery bank.
When they eventually died, I suspect that they had sulphated (yes, AGMs can sulphate) through charge rates that were too low and not being worked hard enough. But that is off the subject.
Over the same 5 years, I replaced the crank battery 3 times. I was using top quality, sealed, flooded batteries.
The first one lasted 2 years and I assumed it was just 'bad luck'.
The second was a really good quality Ca/Ca and only lasted 3 years.
I 'took it apart' out of curiosity. I am fairly certain that it failed mechanically. It had simply shaken to pieces on the corrugations (we do see a few of those from time to time where we go ).
There are differences between "normal" battery construction and (some) of those labelled "4X4" or "marine". The plates in "normal" batteries are suspended from the top of the battery. They are unsupported at the bottom and in adverse conditions may 'flap around' a lot. Those sold as 4x4 or marine are supposedly built better and have support for the plates at the bottom of the battery as well as at the top. This makes them much less likely to fail through vibration and shock.
The second crank battery in the OKA that only lasted 3 years was constructed this way.
GEL and AGM batteries however go one BIG step further.
The plates are fully supported over their entire surface by the GEL that is used instead of the liquid acid in flooded batteries.
So much better is the support (and sealing) that these batteries can be installed on their side or even up side down. It is not recommended to install them on end.
The current crank battery in the OKA is a 120Ahr Fullriver HGL series AGM.
The HGL series has better CCA ratings than the DC series batteries. The one I am using has ample cranking capacity for the 4L, 4 cylinder, Perkins diesel powered OKA.
A word of warning, however. I understand that AGM batteries do not appreciate the high temperatures usually found under the bonnets of modern cars. The one in the OKA is on the side of the vehicle, so does not have to contend with that issue.
Peter,
As I understand it from the Fullriver information the HGL series are purely Deep cycle application,not as a cranking battery.In fact I use 2x260amp HGL for house batteries and have been using 120amp for 8years in my previous incarnation as a winnebago owner.
--
December 28, 2010 at 5:21 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Peter_n_Margaret
Member
Posts: 198
Check out the DC manual.....
www.rjbatt.com/attachments/064_Fullriver...anual%20AUG-2010.pdf
Or this comparison sheet (a smaller download).
www.rjbatt.com/attachments/064_Fullriver...lication%20guide.pdf
--
Cheers Peter, OKA196 Motorhome. www.oka4wd.com/xt196.htm
December 28, 2010 at 6:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply
len&rina
Member
Posts: 38
Peter_n_Margaret at December 28, 2010 at 6:05 PM
Check out the DC manual.....
www.rjbatt.com/attachments/064_Fullriver...anual%20AUG-2010.pdf
Or this comparison sheet (a smaller download).
www.rjbatt.com/attachments/064_Fullriver...lication%20guide.pdf
Hi Peter,
I agree that the DC series is suitable for cranking,but am still cannot see the connection to the HGL which you say you are using.
--
December 29, 2010 at 9:35 AM Flag Quote & Reply
Peter_n_Margaret
Member
Posts: 198
I am using the DC for the house for cycling, because that is what they were designed for and they are better for this than the HGL.
The HGL was designed as a standby power supply battery but has a better CCA rating than the DC, so my use of one as a crank is somewhat experimental. So far, so good.
I could possibly have used another DC for cranking as well, but the HGL appeared to be better.
The real purpose of the thread was to discuss the better physical attributes of the AGM batteries compared to flooded house batteries when exposed to the constant vibration abuse that some of us manage to give them. If they also provide adequate cranking life as well. that would be a great bonus, in my view.
--
Cheers Peter, OKA196 Motorhome. www.oka4wd.com/xt196.htm
December 30, 2010 at 4:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
"The HGL was designed as a standby power supply battery but has a better CCA rating than the DC, so my use of one as a crank is somewhat experimental. So far, so good."
How much better and especially how much better at freezing temperatures when it really counts.
--
Tony
picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379
January 1, 2011 at 10:46 PM Flag Quote & Reply
Peter_n_Margaret
Member
Posts: 198
Don't know the answer to that Tony, but if I get into strife, I can allways close the 2 way RedArc and use the house batteries to help with the cranking.
Cheers,
Peter
--
Cheers Peter, OKA196 Motorhome. www.oka4wd.com/xt196.htm
January 2, 2011 at 4:37 AM Flag Quote & Reply
Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
They do give figures. these are the ones for my DC260 house batteries. If I get bored later I'll look up the others
CRANKING PERFORMANCE
2135
HCA 70˚F
1830
CA 32˚F
1525
CCA 0˚F
--
Tony
picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379
January 2, 2011 at 8:17 AM Flag Quote & Reply
Peter_n_Margaret
Member
Posts: 198
www.fullriver.com/products/admin/upfile/HGL120-12B.pdf
The HGL120 shows a max discharge rate of 1200A (5 secs, 25C) which is higher than the 1100A quoted for the DC115, but I can't see a CCA for the HGL now...............
--
Cheers Peter, OKA196 Motorhome. www.oka4wd.com/xt196.htm
January 2, 2011 at 12:15 PM
David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.
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