Heat & Noise Insulation

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02 Nov 2012 21:53 - 30 Jun 2013 19:43 #1 by dandjcr
dandjcr created the topic: Heat & Noise Insulation
Forum Home > On the Road > Heat & Noise Insulation

from Cando:
Hal, I notice you are using the Dynamat in your truck, is it any good?
About to buy something but havent decided as yet. As we live in the tropics we find what works down in mexico doesn't always work so good up here.
Cando and Bron XLT 112
May 13, 2011


from Peter & Sandra James Oka 374:
Cando
I've used Hushmat see ( www.stage1customs.com/index.php?page=shop&subpage=hushmat ) on two vehicles now, the Humvee has been done for over 6 years and is still as good as the day it was done.
I've just done the cabin and front doors on the Oka but as I'm still doing the camper conversion it hasn't been driven as yet.
It is available in black which is less noticeable than dynamat, it is also cheaper ;-))
Peter
May 13, 2011


from Hal Harvey:
That has been the start of a learning curve. I acquired a box of vibration-deadening DynaMat Xtreme, and worked on the logic of 'if some is good, more is better'... not so with this stuff. This site here www.sounddeadenershowdown.com was an after-the-event education; he says anything more than 25% coverage with vibration-deadening material is a waste, and I now get it. I went overboard with this product because I had lots, but was surprised that it made very little difference to noise and still transferred plenty of heat.
Which is not to say that DynaMat www.dynamat.com/products_automotive_introduction.html is not an excellent product, just I didn't do the first part of the job quite right. I still have to finish the job with closed cell foam & mass-loaded vinyl like the first site says, and I knew that, and that's what's really going to cut out the noise and engine heat. I probably still will use DynaMat products, as it comes highly recommended and should be a lot cheaper now than it was a year ago. I think a few others have splashed it around and reported good results.
The factory soundproofing is very effective (just lift the engine cover while the motor's running and you instantly learn that), but it will obviously benefit passenger comfort by further soundproofing. One area that I know will make a big difference is the top of the console and around the gearsticks; just dump a sleeping bag (unrolled) on top of it all when you're driving along one day. I did that accidentally once and was astonished at the decibels reduction.
Both of those sites are worth a read. Then you won't do it wrong like this...


May 13, 2011


from Peter & Sandra James Oka 374:
Like Hal says you can fit too much and the other stuff over the top is still needed.
On the Oka I found that just fitting a piece on the inside of the outer door skin while it doesn't cover more than 50 -60% of the door made a huge difference. When you shut the door now it just goes thunk like a luxury car rather than booiinngg like an Oka. It also stops a lot of the noise from outside too. I drove ours after I stripped all the factory headlining out of the bus body, before I fitted the poptop roof and you couldn't hear yourself think.
ANY hole that air can flow through will admit noise so blocking the smallest hole makes a huge difference. I've been amazed at the number of gaps and small holes I've found that have been left open since the truck was built that were never sealed at the factory.
May 14, 2011


from Dandj:
As Hal says, "One area that I know will make a big difference is the top of the console and around the gearsticks". I noticed that too while I was sound proofing the cabin as Oka didn't sound proof that area.
The last time I had the gearbox control panel out (to replace clevis pins), I cleaned and covered the bottom of the panel with sound/heat proofing material from Whitworths ( www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.as...02&intAbsolutePage=1 ), (I'd never heard of DynaMat back then), and finished sealing the edges with aluminium tape. Whitworths now have a thicker deluxe version.
FYI, apart from replacing/adding soundproofing to all the engine bay surfaces, i also covered all the metal surfaces in the cabin with closed cell foam (used for 1 cm thick sleeping mats from camping shops) and covered that with Wonderwall carpeting from Spotlight. Makes it soft as well as quiet.
I also stuck some thin sound deadening to the inside of the door panels which are large sheets of steel which can drum.
All this keeps the whole cabin much quieter and makes it easier to live in.
May 14, 2011


from Paul Scherek:
Hi all,
I found that tapping the roof or the panels behind the doors on a single cab causes a huge BOING. When driving along, general vibration seems to cause these panels to resonate and just increases general noise level.
I tried a number of different stick-on damping materials but they were not very effective. In the end I drilled holes through the roof and the side panels and fixed 10mm marine ply to the inside with screws through said holes.
I then beat myself up for vandalising the cab by drilling holes, but after driving it I forgave myself, because it did make a big difference. I suffer from severe tinnitus, so I am paranoid about noise.
I am still not very happy with all those self-tapper heads showing though.....
May 14, 2011


from Dandj:
Paul, make the screw heads a feature, use chromed screw caps, like Ferrari did once?
May 14, 2011


from Cando:
Thanks for all the info. Will let all know with pics what I end up with.
May 17, 2011


from oka422:
Paul, Try silicon to stick the wood to the panel. I have done this to the metal panels to a bus body using 6mm MDF. Instead of getting a BOING when I tap a panel I get a THUD instead. There was a definite reduction in noise.
I found that the wood does not need to cover all of the metal panel (about 75%) nor does it need to one sheet of wood and a generous blob of silicon at each corner and centre is all that is needed. The silicon would also help in suppressing the panel vibration.
I also replaced the roof lining with 3mm ply lined with foam and frabric, and between the ply and the roof I "stuffed" in insulation material and made sure that there was firm contact between the lining and the roof to stop the roof from resonating - this also resulted in a THUD when the roof was tapped.
May 18, 2011

David and Janet Ribbans - Oka 148
Oka148 profile here.
Visit our technical and travel blogs: here.
Last Edit: 30 Jun 2013 19:43 by Hal Harvey.

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30 Jun 2013 20:17 #2 by Hal Harvey
Hal Harvey replied the topic: Heat & Noise Insulation
OBJ posted the following in another thread:

>> I found this review on the net: Trying to keep her cool www.shanescitshed.com/cx2500/air-con/citroen_cx_insulation.html

I used triple layers on the roof and double elsewhere on 169. Also put it on the front of the cab outside. Works well, a little fragile and you really need to prep the area you are going to glue.I put some around the front aircon evap box as well.

I think it works well and the new owner of 169 thinks it is quite and there isn't a lot heat. He drove 281 as well, so he could let you know if there is a difference. 169 has 16 inch tyre which would be a lot noiser on their own.

I brought the stuff from here, I had left overs when I finished. Cost is around $240 for 200 sq.ft. EZ COOL INSULATION www.lobucrod.com

Might be able to get something cheaper here at Bunnings etc, not sure. I was in a remote area when I was rebuilding, so it was just as easy to order from the States.
<<

That set me off doing a bit of research, because I still hadn't finished my heat & noise insulation from a couple of years ago. The product described above is a 5mm closed-cell polyethylene foam, with an aluminium facing. It is very effective for stopping heat, and less so for stopping noise (though it helps). I researched a lot of options and alternatives, but the bottom line is that it appears that closed-cell polyethylene foam is what you really want to make a heat shield out of.

The material is readily available in 5mm thickness, 10mm thickness and also in 15, 20 and 25mm thicknesses. For automotive use, the two thinner sizes are really the useful ones to fit where it needs to go, but fortunately that is not a problem; because the effectiveness of the product is not a straight line but a swish curve that says 10mm is about 50% better a heat insulator than 5mm, but 25mm is only about 5% better than 10mm. So if you can fit 10mm in, that's all you need.



The value version appears to be branded Formshield, and is available from Clark Rubber and a few places that deal with air conditioning insulation. It is available as glue-it-yourself or with a self-adhesive backing. So I'll be getting some self-adhesive 10mm this week for the next step in the job.

If you ever think that your OKA's air conditioning is a bit ordinary, I seriously suggest that you look critically at how much work it is doing to keep engine tunnel heat at bay. On our last big trip, I thought the aircon was fine and the cabin was comfortable, though the outside temperature wasn't particularly high. Then the aircon sprung a leak and lost its gas; and the cabin temperature became rapidly intolerable. Our V8 installation means there is a lot more tunnel heat to cope with, but I hadn't realised how much because the aircon was very effectively disguising it. Next time we'll have excellent insulation from the heat and the aircon can be doing what it was meant to be doing.

Principal advisor to the Minister for Tourism, Liza Harvey MLA
... OKA 260 ... "I'm not leaving any sooner than I have to!"
www.byles.net/OLDportal/members-vehicles-public/5-oka-260
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30 Jun 2013 20:29 - 30 Jun 2013 20:32 #3 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: Heat & Noise Insulation
I can say that the stuff I used cut the noise down a lot as well.

So much so I can have a phone conversation or have the stereo not cranked to the max.

However the best judge will be the new owner of 169, he commented on how quite it was. He drove the LT back from Qld. So he would be able to judge how effective it has or hasnt been.

I can say the heat and noise it cut down was a lot compared to 244.
Last Edit: 30 Jun 2013 20:32 by Outback Jack.

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01 Jul 2013 16:31 #4 by Dean and Kaye Howells
Dean and Kaye Howells replied the topic: Heat & Noise Insulation
I installed Dynamat in #413 shortly after we purchased it. Did a pretty thorough job with a single layer over all floor, firewall and non engine cover surfaces. I put a double layer over side cover, engine hatch and fibreglass top cover. The reduction in noise was amazing, we could actually carry on a conversation and have the radio not flat out.
The down side was that the loudest noise became the air intake from the snorkel pipe behind the driver. Fortunately I had lots of 'left over' bits of Dynamat which I then used to build a 3 layer thick Dynamat cover on the PVC air inlet pipe. It worked a charm and the overall effect was a 'massive' reduction in cabin noise. Overall cost was approx. $600 and probably 20 hours work (be a lot quicker a second time)and probably the best 'bang for buck' mod I've done to the OKA.

Deano :)

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01 Jul 2013 17:26 #5 by Hal Harvey
Hal Harvey replied the topic: Heat & Noise Insulation
What kind of Dynamat though Deano? There's Dynaliner, Dynadeck, Dynapad and Extreme, and they all serve different purposes.

Principal advisor to the Minister for Tourism, Liza Harvey MLA
... OKA 260 ... "I'm not leaving any sooner than I have to!"
www.byles.net/OLDportal/members-vehicles-public/5-oka-260

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01 Jul 2013 17:29 #6 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: Heat & Noise Insulation
Dynamat is good for sound asborption, not so for heat. Although it does a good job with the heat.

It is expensive and also adds a lot of weight.

I think 5mm or 10mm closed-cell polyethylene foam, with an aluminium facing is the best all round and it cheaper than Dynamat.

Just my two cents worth..........

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01 Jul 2013 18:54 #7 by Dean and Kaye Howells
Dean and Kaye Howells replied the topic: Heat & Noise Insulation

Hal Harvey wrote: What kind of Dynamat though Deano? There's Dynaliner, Dynadeck, Dynapad and Extreme, and they all serve different purposes.


Hi Hal, I used Dynamat Extreme, the same as in the pic in the original post in this thread. Angelica put me on to it and sent me a small sample, said it was what Oka used in the NT at the time.

OBJ it's not too heavy, you might be confusing it with the thick grey type 'rubber' mat sound deadening, very effective also but also very heavy and much more difficult to work with. Dynamat Extreme is basically 1.6mm butyl rubber with a heavy aluminium foil backing. As I said very effective, simple to install though a bit expensive. I finished ours off with marine type carpet stuck over the top and velcro'd removable foot well mats over the top of the carpet.

As I said earlier it makes a huge difference to sound levels and is well worth the effort for the comfort gained.

Deano :)

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01 Jul 2013 23:24 - 01 Jul 2013 23:42 #8 by Hal Harvey
Hal Harvey replied the topic: Heat & Noise Insulation
I have to humbly disagree. That's my cab with the wall-to-wall Dynamat Xtreme up near the top. Much of it is two layers thick, and I found it made negligible difference to the noise level. That's when I got on to the Sound Deadener Showdown website and found I'd used four times as much as necessary, and it was never going to do what I was expecting - see www.sounddeadenershowdown.com .

Here's the short summary:

Anti-vibration stuff (e.g. Dynamat Xtreme) turns the BOING into a THUD. Nothing more. That's good, but it's not as good as adding the other stuff on top as well. It's very heavy, but that's not really an issue because you only need to cover a quarter of a given panel's surface area to achieve the desired result.

Closed-cell polyethylene foam (e.g. Formshield, Dynaliner, Dynadeck), makes a very effective heat barrier. Not much else. Apparently it will make the next thing, MLV, work better if you use it between the Xtreme and the MLV; but it wont kill much sound in its own right.

Mass-Loaded Vinyl is the noise killer. It's heavy because it has to be to do that job. It's a poor heat barrier, unless you use Dynapad, which incorporates a layer of the closed-cell polyethylene foam.

Depending on where on the vehicle you're using it, most times you're going to get an improved result by using all three. There are various combinations, but it's universal to kick off with the anti-vibration stuff as everybody does; and then build layers over the top of that.

Principal advisor to the Minister for Tourism, Liza Harvey MLA
... OKA 260 ... "I'm not leaving any sooner than I have to!"
www.byles.net/OLDportal/members-vehicles-public/5-oka-260
Last Edit: 01 Jul 2013 23:42 by Hal Harvey.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Dean and Kaye Howells

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03 Jul 2013 07:12 #9 by Dean and Kaye Howells
Dean and Kaye Howells replied the topic: Heat & Noise Insulation
Well Hal, it's 'horses for courses' I guess. There is no doubt the noise level in #413 was substantially reduced with the installation of Dynamat Extreme. Previously it was a major effort to listen to the radio without it turned up to distortion level (which then defeats the point of listening anyway), or to have a non shouting conversation at cruising speeds. I would liken the 'after' noise level in #413 to that of a 1H diesel Landcruiser with rubber floor mats. Hardly quiet but a lot quieter than what I started with.

When we purchased #413 it was a multicab with no floor mats or carpet in the cabin or the rear. I layered Dynamat Extreme over all below window surfaces in the cabin with a double layer on the engine side covers and panel below the side covers, a double layer under the fibreglass central cover and on the metal underneath it, this extends up to the heater box in the dash. I also put two layers under the foam in the engine hatch and re adjusted the hinges so that it sealed correctly. The single layer extends under and behind the seats and over the ledge behind them. What made a significant difference to cabin noise was covering inside the doors with a large sheet the same size as the plastic trim. As I said earlier I used the 'scraps' to multi layer over the air inlet pipe. Carpet covers all surfaces to top it off.

For us the proof of the pudding is in the eating, we can now have the radio on at a decent level and carry out a conversation at non-shouting levels. From an audio perspective I would 'guesstimate' the reduction in noise level to be approx. 10dB.

What is noticeable with the changing from multicab to full bus body is an increase in background noise level but as fitting out and insulation continues I expect this noise level to decrease.

Deano :)

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03 Jul 2013 07:39 #10 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Heat & Noise Insulation
I put Hushmat(same as Dynamat but black instead of silver and cheaper) all over the front panel under the dash, tunnel and up under the seats. Then put 10mm closed cell foam sleeping mats over that and the footwells.
Also blocked all the holes I could find in the cab to the outside (there were plenty),Hushmat on the inner side of the doorskins and then carpet over the tunnel and behind the seats. More closed cell foam around the snorkel under the trim pieces and also stuck closed cell foam with foil backing all over heater unit and ducting. The result is being able to speak to each other and use the phone on handsfree whilst mobile plus listen to the stereo at reasonable levels.
The poptop roof, rear slideout and the camper fitout also quietened the noise from the rear bus body and the fitting of the auto trans and Nissan transfer case got rid of most of the mechanical noise from underneath.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 680w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.
The following user(s) said Thank You: TH

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01 Sep 2013 06:29 #11 by Moose2367
Moose2367 replied the topic: Heat & Noise Insulation
Bringing back an old thread.

Anyone got pics of Hushmat installed? My roof lining is almost stuffed, and was thinking of doing the whole dual cab and tunnel, then put marine carpet or something similar over it.

Anyone that has done a dual cab, how much do you need, i can get 56sq/ft for around $380 delivered.

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01 Sep 2013 06:39 #12 by Peter and Sandra OKA 374
Peter and Sandra OKA 374 replied the topic: Heat & Noise Insulation
I have but you can't really see it as I got the black one with no branding etc on it.
Email Stage 1 customs (the Oz distributors as they may give discounts for large lots as might the ebay sellers.

OKA 374 LT Van, converted to camper/motorhome,
400ah Lithiums, 680w solar, diesel cooking heating and HWS,
Cummins 6BT, Allison 6 speed auto, Nissan transfer.

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01 Sep 2013 07:59 #13 by 4x4Coaster
4x4Coaster replied the topic: Heat & Noise Insulation
There is another brand called Resomat which I used throughout all the steel floor areas of my coaster.

here is the supplier

www.trufitcarpets.com.au/

what I did;

removed all surface rust & treated to neutralise
welded up all excess holes
primer painted
colour painted white
then sprayed all area with bitumen type body deadener spray
then applied the resomat layer
covered all floor area with the best quality underlay that Trufit sold
then covered all floor with that typical charcoal coloured waterproof carpet.

I also used the 10mm high density sponge with aluminium foil one side & self adhesive the other side to all the side panels & doors & firewall.

You may wonder why I bothered with all the layers; I wanted to stop rust, prevent water ingress, reduce noise & heat transfer and have a soft finish to help absorb interior noise. I have rubber mats in the footwells to catch sand & mud etc.

This was without doubt the most important mod to do, greatly reduced all external noise and could listen to the radio at 100 k which previously was a waste of time as it just added to the noise.

4x4Coaster

'87 SWB Toyota Coaster
2007 F250 Superduty Front & rear axles, 5R110 5speed Auto, NP273 transfer case
Cummins 12v 6b T/D from '94 Dodge Ram
Front coil suspension with custom radius arms
Rear coaster leaf springs with Airbags
All work done by owner

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21 Jun 2014 15:11 #14 by Moose2367
Moose2367 replied the topic: Heat & Noise Insulation
Bring back on old thread, as i'm in the process of replacing all the heat/sound proofing in the engine bay.

Anyone used this stuff - www.stpsolutions.com.au/newproducts

Looks OK, not too expensive either. I also want to do the doors and more than likely, the whole roof, as i have foam falling down everywhere

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