Differential pinion seal

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30 Oct 2012 13:01 #1 by dandjcr
dandjcr created the topic: Differential pinion seal
Forum Home > OKA Maintenance > Differential pinion seal


Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
Seal is CR 18888

Anyone have the number of the speedy sleeve to match
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Tony

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September 25, 2012 at 7:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply

joseph baz
Member
Posts: 331
What series yoke you have on yours? is still the XT std?
Cheers,Joe
September 25, 2012 at 8:13 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Outback Jack
Member
Posts: 381
Is there any upgrades you can do to the yokes?

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September 25, 2012 at 8:57 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
Far as I know my XT 123 is stock standard (if there is such a thing)

Don't need the seal and sleeve, just want to top up my spares just in case.
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Tony

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September 25, 2012 at 11:25 PM Flag Quote & Reply

joseph baz
Member
Posts: 331
Outback Jack at September 25, 2012 at 8:57 PM
Is there any upgrades you can do to the yokes?

Yes ,there is but you will have to upgrade the yoke in the tail shaft end as well as the unis are bigger.
Tony,I think I have a couple of sleeves at the workshop,will let you know the number this afternoon.
Cheers,Joe
September 26, 2012 at 8:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

outyonda.com
Member
Posts: 58
you can drill & fit u bolts. same u/j same u bolt all round. cheers Brett
September 26, 2012 at 8:22 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Pete Fox
Member
Posts: 140
Tony Lee at September 25, 2012 at 7:27 PM
Seal is CR 18888

Anyone have the number of the speedy sleeve to match
CR 18888 is not the correct seal although it will fit. The ID and OD are the same, but the profile of the metal stamping is different.
The correct seal is National 9316. The shape of the metal stamping, fits in behind the dust shield on the uni yoke so that the seal lip is protected. with the CR 18888, the lip is exposed.

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Peter Fox

OKA 266 Multi-cab.

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September 26, 2012 at 8:29 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Outback Jack
Member
Posts: 381
I am also lead to believe that you can put them in backwards. They will seal for a while, but not last that long.
I am still confused about yokes etc. I thought all OKA`s came out with 1410 Uni`s. Maybe a few early ones didnt. I also know that some have the straps for the Uni and others U bolts.
Will have to check 169, I think it has a combination of both.
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September 26, 2012 at 9:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Chalkie
Member
Posts: 21
Just got two N9316 seals for mine. is there any precations to be taken when removing and fitting?
September 26, 2012 at 1:25 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
"The shape of the metal stamping, fits in behind the dust shield on the uni yoke so that the seal lip is protected. with the CR 18888, the lip is exposed."
Tried to get that dust shield a couple of years ago (ftransfer case front output has one) but told they were no longer available. Seemed to me that they served a very useful function and couldn't understand the non-availability
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Tony

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September 26, 2012 at 2:18 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539

CR 18888 is not the correct seal although it will fit. The ID and OD are the same, but the profile of the metal stamping is different.
The correct seal is National 9316."

This could be corrected in the spare parts listing which has shown the 18888 seal for several years
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Tony

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September 26, 2012 at 2:29 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
Ah, OK - just went and checked what the bearing place gave me. They took a while to find a reference to the CR18888 anyway, and I see they have supplied the National 9316.

Sleeve they gave me was National 99187.

Now, one of those dust shields would be nice.

This seal looks different to the one I was supplied a couple of years ago. Does the actual lip part of the seal (the smallest diameter part) face into the diff or towards the yolk. If it faced the yolk, looks as if the seal would be harder to fit.

"Will have to check 169, I think it has a combination of both."

123 has both - straps on diff end and ubolts on transfer case end
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Tony

picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379

September 26, 2012 at 2:35 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Pete Fox
Member
Posts: 140
Tony
the spring always goes towards the oil.
These pictures should show the difference
This is 266's rear pinion with a National 9316 fitted, notice that none of the pinion shaft is visible the shield on the yoke fits over the seal



This is 266's front pinion with a CR 18888 fitted. Shaft and seal lip is visible and the shield on the yoke is doing nothing.



A new yoke showing the shield. All Dana 60 and 70 diffs have the same yoke/ seal/ pinion nut and they should have this shield



--
Peter Fox

OKA 266 Multi-cab.

Photobucket album



September 26, 2012 at 4:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Pete Fox
Member
Posts: 140
Chalkie at September 26, 2012 at 1:25 PM
Just got two N9316 seals for mine. is there any precations to be taken when removing and fitting?
Chalkie
you will destroy the old seal getting it out, they are very tight.
There are probalbly better ways, but a block of 4x2 hardwood across the face of the seal with a decent hammer seems to work.
Also the pinion nuts can be almost impossible to shift. I have just done this job and I drilled the nut parallel with the thread and split it with a cold chisel. the nuts are fairly soft and a new 3mm drill did it easy. you will know when you are through the nut because there is a hardended washer behind it that is tough to drill. New nuts are available on eBay for about $10 each plus about $10 for freight for two.
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Peter Fox

OKA 266 Multi-cab.

Photobucket album



September 26, 2012 at 4:32 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
Thank to your photos Peter, I can see it was much ado about nothing because I did get it right when I put a new seal in after the first Simpson trip.
What I didn't get right though was the seal had that red paint which should have acted to seal the outer of the seal against the recess in the diff housing so I didn't put any extra sealant on it. Seal wasn't perfect and getting a weep past the outside of the seal. No real harm, just adds to the mess a little. I did clean the area with CRC CO (thanks Peter & Sandra) and smeared some red silicone around the perimeter and it did stop it for all of the recent trip until recently.

I made up a tool to lock the yoke solidly while undoing the nut, Just a bit of angle with a V cut out to clear the nut and a couple of holes to bolt it to the end of the yoke. Length of angle is long enough to hit the ground or the chassis. Otherwise there is too much spring in the transmission to get the nut loose unless you use an impact wrench
Nut is 1 5/16" AF
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Tony

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September 26, 2012 at 4:58 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Chalkie
Member
Posts: 21
Looks like it could keep me busy for a while.
September 26, 2012 at 6:04 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
Not a big job really.
Unbolt the universal joint an move tail shaft out of the way. Make sure the caps don't fall off (can check for broken rollers, lubrication etc while they are accessible
Mark the exact position of the nut so you can get it back to exactly the same position rather than using torque settings because I understand they are only good for the first time you set it up.
If you have a big pipe wrench you could put it on the yoke with the handle against the ground or the chassis to stop it turning when you undo the nut - or make up a tool like I did.
Washer under the nut
Pull the yoke out

Dig the seal out. Can't remember if there are shims plus the washer behind it but make sure they are undisturbed or put back the same way.
Washer and bearing behind the seal

Clean up inside and where the seal goes
Check condition of bearing and outer
Preoil the bearing if you need to
Use something like the red silicone to coat the outer rim of the seal
Bash it in
Refit the yoke and do up the nut to exactly the same position. Use new nut if the nyloc bit isn't working properly
Refit the universal joint/tail shaft
Grease the tail shaft

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Tony

picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379

September 26, 2012 at 7:21 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Dandj
Member
Posts: 367
When you have the yoke out it's a good idea to get it modified to use U-bolts rather than the original straps and small bolts which can work loose or are difficult to remove.



The same applies to the transfer box front yoke. Paul Nott can do this mod and supply the U-bolts.
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David and Janet Ribbans, Oka 148

September 27, 2012 at 7:21 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Outback Jack
Member
Posts: 381
I thought it was just a matter of drilling the threads out in the yoke?
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Outback Jack
Member
Posts: 381
Oh OK.
Once 169 is back together, I might look at changing the yokes out, they are fairly cheap from the States.

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September 27, 2012 at 9:23 AM Flag Quote & Reply

joseph baz
Member
Posts: 331
Tony Lee at September 25, 2012 at 7:27 PM
Seal is CR 18888

Anyone have the number of the speedy sleeve to match
Sorry Tony,forgot about it yesterday,the SKF part no is 99832,that sleeve will fit over the yoke with the diam 1.875" which is the 1350 series
Cheers,Joe
September 27, 2012 at 6:58 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tony Lee
Member
Posts: 539
joseph baz at September 27, 2012 at 6:58 PM
Tony Lee at September 25, 2012 at 7:27 PM
Seal is CR 18888

Anyone have the number of the speedy sleeve to match
Sorry Tony,forgot about it yesterday,the SKF part no is 99832,that sleeve will fit over the yoke with the diam 1.875" which is the 1350 series
Cheers,Joe
Damn and blast. They gave me sleeve National 99187. so I guess I might have to find my calipers and check - but of course I can't measure the yoke in-situ so

And one sleeve costs as much as 2 seals
Ah OK when in doubt use the internet

Well I'll be. dimensions are identical with one being referred to as a "gold product"

Doh!
--
Tony

picasaweb.google.com/114611728110254134379

September 27, 2012 at 8:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Alister McBride
Member
Posts: 97
On the note of removing the pinion nut. It's hard to remove for three possible reasons, one it's usually rattle gunned on, two usually loctite is used which is the bigger influence, and three it's possibly rusted on a bit. I used the oxy just to heat up the nut A LITTLE BIT (which releases the loctite, don't heat up enough to melt seals etc!) then it just came loose...

Jo, on the note of 1350 uni's v's 1410, am i right in assuming from what you guys are talking about that the front driveshaft at some stage in OKA history got upgraded to 1410 series? The reason i ask is that i'm building a Dana 70 front diff and Dana 80 rear which means i probably need to shorten the driveshafts. Currently i have 1350 front uni's which need replacing anyway, I am going to be using the 325 Michies so i'm assuming it would be wise to upgrade to 1410 on the front as the 'fuse' will be a little too small otherwise...? Although i can't really find torque specs on the web for the 1410 v's 1350...
September 28, 2012 at 10:49 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Outback Jack
Member
Posts: 381
I know 244 had the 1410 Uni`s, but not sure on 169.
I dont know how to tell the difference really,
Here is a picture of the Rear Diff Uni



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September 28, 2012 at 11:26 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Alister McBride
Member
Posts: 97
Thanks Outback Jack, the standard rear uni is a 1410 but its the front i'm interested in. Sounds like they started with 1350's and later went to 1410's, can someone confirm?
Cheers,
Alister
September 28, 2012 at 5:38 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Outback Jack
Member
Posts: 381
OK, I think it was the real early ones, But wiser ones here will tell you.
I have to do the rear pinion seal, I will have to check what I have. But I used the Dana Part number at CBC and the crossed referenced it
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September 28, 2012 at 6:53 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Alister McBride
Member
Posts: 97
Any wiser one's out there?
September 30, 2012 at 12:59 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Pete Fox
Member
Posts: 140
Alister
the XT parts book shows the complete 1410 series prop shaft as superceding a previously existing 1350 series shaft, but no mention of which serial no's the 1350's were fitted to. It also show lists the yokes to be used in the changeover.
There is no direct listing of the 1350 series UJ as a separate part for the XT so I would read into that, that the Okas fitted with 1350 unis were upgraded by Oka (or were supposed to be).
The 1350 series is a narrower UJ than the 1410 but uses the same size cap
1350= 3 5/8" width 1 3/16" cap
1410= 4 3/16" width 1 3/16" cap
whatever that is in metric.


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Peter Fox

OKA 266 Multi-cab.

Photobucket album



September 30, 2012 at 1:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Outback Jack
Member
Posts: 381
Conversions listed here
engvalves.com/itemfiles/ctbvp46.pdf


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September 30, 2012 at 2:10 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Alister McBride
Member
Posts: 97
Thanks Peter. Yeah, i wouldn't have thought the 1350 would be up to the torque requirements in an OKA aspecially with soon to be big tyres! So it sounds like i'll be chasing OKA up to upgrade my driveshaft... doh! It's pretty costly too (my uni's are gone so need to renew anyway). Got quotes from spicer near Dandenong (melbourne) and it was a massive expense for new driveshafts! Anybody found a good supplier in Vic that can rebuild or make newbies?
Cheers,
Alister
September 30, 2012 at 8:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Pete Fox
Member
Posts: 140
Alister
it would be much cheaper to import the parts from USA. For example the NP205 output flange and the Dana input flange are about $80 each in the USA see here and here. You will need to find out the correct number of splines on the rear of the NP205. All Dana 60 and 70 pinion shafts are the same.
You can figure out which parts you need by using the Hardy Spicer catalogue and your rear tailshaft ( the front prop shaft parts will you need be the same as in your rear shaft). Depending on where you are it shouldn't be too hard to to find someone to make it up for you. Once you find out the correct part numbers, just google them and you will get heaps of hits.
All roads seem to lead to Northern Drivetrain though and it may be just as easy to type the part number into the serach box there. You can even get your drivshaft tube from here. I think they may make it up for you.
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Peter Fox

OKA 266 Multi-cab.

Photobucket album



October 1, 2012 at 5:30 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Pete Fox
Member
Posts: 140
Alister
the major difference between the 1350's and 1410's is not their strength, but their operating angle. Unless you plan to get radical, you may not need to upgrade

The continuous rating of a 1350 is 210 lb-ft and the 1410 is 250 lb-ft, this is about a 20% difference.
the max operating angle is 20deg (1350) compared to 37deg (1410)

There is a good article on all this stuff from Billa Vista

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Peter Fox

OKA 266 Multi-cab.

Photobucket album



October 1, 2012 at 7:06 AM Flag Quote & Reply

joseph baz
Member
Posts: 331
If you are re tubing,may as well go for 1480 series and that will make it uniform throughout the vehicle,like front axles and prop shafts and only need 1 spare universal joint.
Cheers,Joe
October 1, 2012 at 9:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Alister McBride
Member
Posts: 97
Thanks Guys! I'll let you know how i go...
October 3, 2012 at 10:07 AM
September 27, 2012 at 7:32 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Dandj
Member
Posts: 367
Outback Jack at September 27, 2012 at 7:32 AM
I thought it was just a matter of drilling the threads out in the yoke?
Jack, no the pitch of the U-bolts is different (wider) than the straps. You really need a jig to ensure the correct spacing while drilling.
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David and Janet Ribbans, Oka 148

September 27, 2012 at 9:17 AM

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