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26 Aug 2021 11:01 #21 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Members
Bullshit.
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26 Aug 2021 12:57 #22 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Members

Rick Whitworth wrote: Bullshit.


But it is true.
“If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them.” Dalai Lama

And like Matthew 11:15 says, “The lame shall walk”.
Which is also something I working on between sessions of elevating the foot.
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27 Aug 2021 07:30 #23 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Members
Holmz, you are completely out of line with those comments, maybe i was right a few posts ago. It is everyones business because they (the cancelled) are part of our group, a very valued part, and saying i should mind my own business when it affects my experience on the forum to which shouldn't have been altered is the point where i tell you to pull your head in... again! Nobody should be banned unless they are completely unruly... end of story! Anything else is politics. Get OKAbloke his account back as it was, end of story!

ps -
1) do you call questioning the intent and integrity of the admins 'shit stirring' or just a system of required regulation on power hungry politicking admins?
2) I would just enjoy the technical contributions of the site if they weren't so interfered with by the politics of the admins...
3) the covid lockdowns etc don't really affect me. And, either way i don't find anything in the way of depression or other mental health issues... the contention i raise is drawn from pure intent for the oka community and the abolition of the admins politicking!

How's your mental health going? I'm sincerely hoping you're going ok with all the surgery etc and any difficulties you must be facing at the moment! We are, and as a community should be looking after eachother and accepting eachothers points of view and ways of going about things, not blocking and arguing! I only argue because i and obviously many others feel what you have done is completely unjust!

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27 Aug 2021 08:05 #24 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: Members
As the Italian lady said to the Pope when he banned contraceptives...."You no playa da game, you no maka da rules".

Holmz and Mort are playing the game, making this site available to us all, and I for one am very grateful. Maybe they have a right to maka da rules.
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27 Aug 2021 08:21 - 27 Aug 2021 08:51 #25 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: Members
I think people are getting a little to personal here.

Admins are doing this for the love of all things OKA. Do they get right all the time, no. However we could ask the same of ourselves.

People in the past have been banned for far less reasons and at the whim of business owners who dictated who and who shouldn't be on this forum.

Whilst the banned person does have a lot knowledge and has contributed a lot, this has only been for the last 3 or 4 years. Stats will show this. However this should not be the reason to include or not include someone on this forum. It should come down purely to them following the rules or not. I don't believe we are using Chatham House Rules here, So not cloak and dagger required.

If a person is banned, then it should be between the admins and that person, done privately. If you want to support that person, then go ahead, but again, do it with admins offline. Both admins are approachable fellas. They are happy to listen to all sides and educated enough to separate the wheat from the chaff. I don't think they are on any power trips, some admins in the past have been very rigid in their thinking and listening to the other side.

Keep politics, slagging of others etc out of the forum and let the forum be used for what is its purpose is. Share knowledge and passion of all things OKA and our travels.

Lets get back to the core reason of this forum. Lets not lose Admins and this forum. In the past we have had Admins who just fed up with it all and backing right off.

It's because of our passion for all things OKA, that sometimes this passion overflows.

No business or person is above everyone else. It's your OKA, it's our forum to share this passion. Are we going to agree with each other all the time no. But lets show some respect and restraint when required. Hard to do when your passionate about something.

Now I'm going to go and get some popcorn and watch the fireworks.......
Last Edit: 27 Aug 2021 08:51 by Outback Jack.
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27 Aug 2021 11:43 - 27 Aug 2021 11:46 #26 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Members
Q1) Where were you when the other member(s) got banned?
I do not recall a rally happening in support of them.

It appears like ‘the good chaplain’ has the first post in the thread, which appears to a response back to an earlier post?
Q2) Where did that first post go to ?

Alister McBride wrote: Holmz, you are completely out of line with those comments, maybe i was right a few posts ago. It is everyones business because they (the cancelled) are part of our group, a very valued part, and saying i should mind my own business when it affects my experience on the forum…


Q1) Which specific comments was I out of line with?

Q2) if it is affecting your forum experience, than at least we have arrived a reason to explain your perspective.

Alister McBride wrote: … to which shouldn't have been altered is the point where i tell you to pull your head in... again! Nobody should be banned unless they are completely unruly... end of story! Anything else is politics. Get OKAbloke his account back as it was, end of story!


^That^ sounds like we should “await Mort’s return”.
I already said I was afraid of messing it up, and now I am feeling a bit bullied. (End of storyz)

Alister McBride wrote: …
ps -
1) do you call questioning the intent and integrity of the admins 'shit stirring' or just a system of required regulation on power hungry politicking admins?


Q3) What do you believe that intent of the admins is?
Q4) How are the admins being power hungry?

Alister McBride wrote: …
ps -

2) I would just enjoy the technical contributions of the site if they weren't so interfered with by the politics of the admins...


Q5) What politics specifically do you believe are in play here?

The site was resurrected from the same attack that brought down the power grid in North America.
The responsibilities include:
- to maintain the site operation
- to approve new memberships requests (which include a lot of foreign troll sites)
- to moderate threads when need.

You will notice that there are no political agendas included within ^that list^.

Alister McBride wrote: …
3) the covid lockdowns etc don't really affect me. And, either way i don't find anything in the way of depression or other mental health issues... the contention i raise is drawn from pure intent for the oka community and the abolition of the admins politicking!


The message was more of a public service message that some people (many in fact), find that the lock downs and restrictions, and media coverage are distressing. And that the lock downs have hindered may people’s sense of community.
You do not seem to be helping the community spirit, with your rallying cry’s of great injustice. But if it is an injustice then we can have something for Mort to do when he returns from the desert.

Alister McBride wrote: …
How's your mental health going? I'm sincerely hoping you're going ok with all the surgery etc and any difficulties you must be facing at the moment! We are, and as a community should be looking after eachother and accepting eachothers points of view and ways of going about things, not blocking and arguing! I only argue because i and obviously many others feel what you have done is completely unjust!


My mental health seems fine, but it is hard to judge one’s self?
- We got the Pfizer jabs back in May (near the front of the queue)
- The NT has been largely Covid free
- We have not been on our tails receiving dole handouts and pondering the purpose (or purposelessness of our lives)
- I have been able to get into and out of WA (another bonus.)
- The kids are thriving,
- It looks like I’ll have an international trip available in a few months,.. and be allowed back in.

Basically…, “Bob;s me uncle and I ‘m laughin”


I get that you feel it is unjust.
I am not trying to add to anyone’s emotional distress, or adversely affect others mental health.
Q6) So how is the solution that I offered up previously… not in-line as being a just solution?

It is like nothing offered is deemed to be workable, and only results is points for yet more distress and conspiracy theories to be born… it is like a belief that all we do is sit around and dream up power plays like a big chess board.
(I work 50-60 hours most weeks, and Mort is in a similar boat)

As he did not want a new profile, then I’ll just await the return of our FIFO admin… unless some of the answers to the questions illuminates some better understanding of your (or other’s) perspective(s).
Last Edit: 27 Aug 2021 11:46 by Holmz.

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27 Aug 2021 11:51 #27 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Members

Paul Scherek wrote: As the Italian lady said to the Pope when he banned contraceptives...."You no playa da game, you no maka da rules".
...


I like double entendres.

(2 points for you sir)
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27 Aug 2021 14:56 #28 by Peter_n_Margaret
Peter_n_Margaret replied the topic: Members
Give it a rest.
Holmz, just tell us that the guy will be reinstated, with his original name, as soon as you can get around to finding out how and getting it done when you can.
Cheers,
Peter

Cheers, Peter.
OKA196 tinyurl.com/OKA196xtMotorhome
Mob.0428171214
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27 Aug 2021 15:12 - 27 Aug 2021 15:14 #29 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Members

Peter_n_Margaret wrote: Give it a rest.
Holmz, just tell us that the guy will be reinstated Not by me, with his original name Not by me, as soon as you can get around to finding out how I am unlikely to risk it and getting it done when you can. That will be less soon with a demanding and bullying attitude directed at me.
Cheers,
Peter


So yeah I agree, let’s give it a rest.

Our FIFO-admin will be back eventually.
So I’ll leave it for his care.

“Patience is a virtue” they say.
Last Edit: 27 Aug 2021 15:14 by Holmz.

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27 Aug 2021 15:56 #30 by Rick Whitworth
Rick Whitworth replied the topic: Members

Holmz wrote: I had a call from David.

I also had 1/2 dozen calls from Mort. 3 where he could hear me, 2 where neither could hear and a single shoddy one where he said he would be back in the big smoke in a couple of weeks.


You gave this advice 5 weeks ago.
You tried your best before and since but it seems that only one person can correct this.
Members have articulated their concerns.
Yes we complain like clockwork
It went quiet for over a month but the lack of a proper resolution prompted the latest tirade.
It will not stop

Technically this site is excellent but it is not democratic regarding the membership of our valued OKA friend.
We want reinstatement or an explanation..

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27 Aug 2021 18:40 - 29 Aug 2021 13:39 #31 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Members

Rick Whitworth wrote:

Holmz wrote: I had a call from David.

I also had 1/2 dozen calls from Mort. 3 where he could hear me, 2 where neither could hear and a single shoddy one where he said he would be back in the big smoke in a couple of weeks.


You gave this advice 5 weeks ago.
You tried your best before and since but it seems that only one person can correct this.
Members have articulated their concerns.
Yes we complain like clockwork
It went quiet for over a month but the lack of a proper resolution prompted the latest tirade.
It will not stop

Technically this site is excellent but it is not democratic regarding the membership of our valued OKA friend.
We want reinstatement or an explanation..


You can want a democracy all you want.
But I do not see a payment scheme, nor a voting scheme here… so it is not a cleptocracy either.

FIFO is like clockwork, or maybe calander work B)

Q9) You say you want an explanation… why do you think that he was banned?
Q10) And why do you think that a new login is not something that was deemed as being acceptable?
Last Edit: 29 Aug 2021 13:39 by Holmz.

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28 Aug 2021 07:47 #32 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Members
OBJ - if the admins didn't create politics, they wouldn't get politics and wouldn't get this 'pressure'. Yes it is a thankless job and it is greatly appreciated but not at the expense of someone who was contributing many years before i saw any input from most of the people involved in this discussion (so yes, longer than the 4 years you mentioned, perhaps those stats are skewed due to this site having shifted around that time?).
- I'm of the opinion nobody should be banned unless they are being personally abusive, and even then only temporarily.
- No, i don't think this should all be between just the admins and complainants. We have seen this not work in the last few months, things needed to be stepped up! Also, it relates to the whole group, people don't want to be at risk of being booted for nothing (or worse than nothing, a petty dispute, from my understanding anyway).
- I had been awaiting a call from either of the admins the other day when i posted the first 'firm' post, and nothing. In fact, i have tried to contact both in the past 6 months regarding other topics and either didn't get calls back or they didn't see or didn't respond to my pm's (possibly due to the pm system not working for a long time now, not having a go, but it is a fact).

Paul Scherek - This site isn't 'theirs' it is the oka communities, started back in the day by Lloyd and Marg Parsons not for the benefit of themselves but the benefit of the oka community and that should be the intent today also. They have the privilege of being custodians of it and enacting what is best for the community. Once you start down the path of 'the admins can do whatever they like' then you can end up in a very sticky situation in many ways... all i'm asking for is a bit of integrity from anyone who admin's the site, and quite frankly if they did that, everything would run A LOT smoother!

Holmz - i'm not intentionally aggressing at you, i believe you are new to the role, but whoever cancelled that account should be accountable (pardon the pun!). Regarding this statement -
"You can want a democracy all you want.
But I do not see a payment scheme, nor a voting scheme here… so it is not a cleptocracy either."
This kind of mentality is not what the oka community is about (read points above to OBJ), i don't think many in the oka community would agree with you on that and nor should they, i think it's pretty disgusting actually... i don't need to say anything more than that...

I agree with Peter Wright (and the other majority of the posters' in this thread), i am happy to let things go for the moment if there is a solid guarantee OKAbloke will be re-instated with full previous account info and privileges on Mort's return (at his earliest convenience).

I would also like to request that we get the specific forum rules as a link in the header of the page. Worded without ambiguity so the oka community know where the boundaries are. this would also prevent this kind of situation into the future.
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28 Aug 2021 08:14 - 28 Aug 2021 13:36 #33 by Outback Jack
Outback Jack replied the topic: Members
I don't think the stats are skewed.

Here is stats for myself and banned user. I haven't been active on the forum much over the last few years and also was banned for over a year.

OBJ
Posts: 1333
Profile views: 420
Thank you received: 158

Posts: 198
Profile views: 221
Thank you received: 57


I think you will find in days gone by there are a few others who contributed more. But it really doesn't matter if you contributed once or a 1000 thousand times.

I have never had a problem to get hold of the Admins, apart from when Mort is offline in the boonies somewhere. Again they have been approachable and reasonable.

Has some members attitudes changed over the last 4 or 5 years?? Or does it depend on the person banned ?????

Others have been banned and their was little outward support for them. There was some who contacted the admins of the day,

People suggesting they will back off if the banned member is reinstated is nothing but bullying. Same for demanding an answer now.

As mentioned some prior admins, would not listen to anyone and were very rigid in their decisions. Banning people from the demands of business owners. They would not listen to reasoning and it took over a year to be resolved.

I don't know the total reasons for the current member being banned, nor do I need to know. The admins have made this decision, if we don't trust them to make the right decision and protect the integrity of this forum, then maybe we should vote with our feet so to say.

I think people sometimes forget the efforts and real financial costs to the admins.

Holmz has decided to wait for Marty, I think this is reasonable. That way it is a joint and unbiased decision from the Admin team. Homlz may also not have the means or know how to fix things, if they needed to be fixed. Who knows he might have the silo keys and not the code.......

The way I see it, this forum really hasn't changed in the 8 to 10 years. There are select few who think they can spit the dummy if this forum is not run the way they expect it to be. Placing demands on Admins and pressuring them with time frames etc. That they should decide who should and should not be banned. We have admins to make the decision and again trust they will make the right one. As mentioned before, if you don't agree, send them an email, pm or if you can hold of them give them a call.

It is sad to lose members, any members. Current banned member has a lot of knowledge, their is denying this. But no one member is above any other member. We all have to abide by the rules.
Last Edit: 28 Aug 2021 13:36 by Outback Jack.

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28 Aug 2021 16:21 - 29 Aug 2021 13:40 #34 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Members

Alister McBride wrote: …
Holmz - i'm not intentionally aggressing at you, i believe you are new to the role, but whoever cancelled that account should be accountable (pardon the pun!). Regarding this statement -
"You can want a democracy all you want.
But I do not see a payment scheme, nor a voting scheme here… so it is not a cleptocracy either."
This kind of mentality is not what the oka community is about (read points above to OBJ), i don't think many in the oka community would agree with you on that and nor should they, i think it's pretty disgusting actually... i don't need to say anything more than that...


Q11) What is disgusting about the forum NOT being a kleptocracy?
Q12) (Do you want it to be one?)
Q13) Or am I missing something here? I guess you probably do need to say something more about it, because I am confused.
It is either disgust or contempt i get…

In any case, I believe that Mort might be back this week.

Q14) If it was not I that canceled the account, then do I have nothing to be accountable for?
Q15) Or am I supposed to still be accountable for something?
Last Edit: 29 Aug 2021 13:40 by Holmz.

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29 Aug 2021 10:45 #35 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Members
Both - refer to all points in previous post. And actually read it this time.

OBJ - Referring to the statement "But no one member is above any other member.", i totally agree, including the admins. And, they should be amenable to the community they are privileged enough to be a part of and support for. You refer to the fact that previous 'banning's' didn't get this attention, they did to a certain extent, but it is precisely those bannings that prompted me personally to raise concerns this time around as i don't think either were just! (the previous i particularly had a problem with which is partly why i left for some years!) I/we should have raised concerns previously but shied away when we shouldn't have... Also, i'm not saying he is above any others but i definitely value his contributions more than some others so 'it affects my experience on the site' (there you go Holmz), and the figures you shared above are accumulated since this server has been used for the site, not previous versions, hence my comment about the numbers being skewed.

Also - "We all have to abide by the rules.", what rules did the banned person break? Who banned the person, and why? We are entitled to know, there aren't any privacy concerns here as it's not personal details and effects what i/we might contribute to the site, so please divulge the info... how do i know what rules there are if they are not clearly posted and available somewhere?

Holmz - thus far you haven't answered any questions and play games with your responses, purposefully ignoring and diverting away from the actual questions being asked. Can you confirm that since OKAbloke has been given the green light to be re-instated that you and Mort will work to get his original account back? End of story...!

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29 Aug 2021 12:17 #36 by Paul Scherek
Paul Scherek replied the topic: Members

Holmz wrote:

Paul Scherek wrote: As the Italian lady said to the Pope when he banned contraceptives...."You no playa da game, you no maka da rules".
...


I like double entendres.

(2 points for you sir)

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29 Aug 2021 13:38 - 29 Aug 2021 13:42 #37 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Members

Alister McBride wrote: Both - refer to all points in previous post. And actually read it this time.


Q16) What does “Both” refer to?
Q17) Both people, both points?

Alister McBride wrote: …
Holmz - thus far you haven't answered any questions and play games with your responses, purposefully ignoring and diverting away from the actual questions being asked. Can you confirm that since OKAbloke has been given the green light to be re-instated that you and Mort will work to get his original account back? End of story...!


That is a bit rich, as I have asked 6-8 questions or more… and have not seen many answers.
And then what games?
Q18) You keep talking about games, but I am not sure what you think is a game here?
It seems like the only game is one of demands.
Q19) Maybe we could start with what post preceded the (apparent) first post off the good Chaplain… ?
(I usually label questions with a Q1, through QN to make them apparent.)

I’ve told you since the last time I was in WA that I could set up a new account. But with all the push back, I gave a yellow light to await Mort… Plus everyone gave a red light to a new account.

Q20) So what green light has been given and who gave the green light?
Q21) What is the green light?

Lastly you mention purposely ignoring and diverting.
I’ll remind you of your recent post below, which sort of implies that I am may either not know the reason, and/or have been responsible for it.

Alister McBride wrote: …
Holmz - i'm not intentionally aggressing at you, i believe you are new to the role, but whoever cancelled that account should be accountable (pardon the pun!).
...


Please refer back to Q14/Q15.


I have been asking for clarity and get demanding posts.
I know it is an emotional thing for many, but perhaps Mort will be wandering back from the desert this week or next.

I am basically not green lighting anything, except keeping my foot up in the air.
Last Edit: 29 Aug 2021 13:42 by Holmz.

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29 Aug 2021 19:58 #38 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Members
Since a majority of the members posting on this topic (bar 2 plus one admin) are merely asking that all efforts go into restoring said account and not letting it go another 2 months without action, then since the admins are representatives of the collective group then it would be great if you could address the issue as soon as practicably possible.

Thanks again for the irrelevant bisecting of sentences Holmz, the main point is outlined above.

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30 Aug 2021 17:12 #39 by Holmz
Holmz replied the topic: Members

Alister McBride wrote: Since a majority of the members posting on this topic (bar 2 plus one admin) are merely asking that all efforts go into restoring said account and not letting it go another 2 months without action, then since the admins are representatives of the collective group then it would be great if you could address the issue as soon as practicably possible.

Thanks again for the irrelevant bisecting of sentences Holmz, the main point is outlined above.


What maths are you using to get a majority? (People or number of posts?)

In any case I thought I mentioned we would await Mort?
Or do you want me to risk accidentally deleting the account?

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30 Aug 2021 18:16 #40 by Alister McBride
Alister McBride replied the topic: Members
I'm happy personally to wait for Mort, i did say "as early as practicable", but wanted to ensure there wasn't another 2 month wait with nothing done. If that was innocent and you're doing your best to get things back up that's fine, but if there was avoidance in getting the account back up and hoping people would forget, that's not fine...

Thanks for the short and to the point reply ;)

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